How The Eagles Fully Capitalized On A Super Bowl Winning Season With Samantha Wood
Samantha Wood is the Director of Social at the raining Super Bowl Champions, the Philadelphia Eagles. Since 2009, she’s been in the sports industry starting at ESPN, the Boston Bruins, the Philadelphia Flyers, and now the Eagles, just to name a few.
The Eagles social team saw earth-shattering social growth coming off the Super Bowl win. Many would say it’s easy when you win, but her team was able to capitalize on moments that very few teams could compete with.
On this episode, we chatted with Samantha about how sound strategy and preparation led to a jackpot of growth. Tons of 'takeaways' in this one!
Listen to the full show here: (and please subscribe to our podcast)
Here are the highlights:
[17:37] What's the main KPI or metric you stare at every day on social?
"Engagement rate for sure. Growth rate is also another one, but I don’t get too bogged down in growth because there's a lot of reasons why an account could grow. Engagement rate is basically 1, 2, and 3 for us. We’re looking at it all the time. We’re constantly on CrowdTangle to see who has the best engagement rate for the week? Who has over performing posts? What are other people doing? At the end of the day, we try to make sure we’re crafting content that keeps our engagement rate really high."
[52:13] What's the one social tool you can't live without?
"Tweetdeck. Tweetdeck forever. I’ve been using it since day one. People think you need fancy social publishing tools, but Tweetdeck, which is free, is the best. It's one of the most useful tools, not just for managing Twitter but also staying up-to-date on what’s going on from that social listening aspect. It has a frictionless way about it that is invaluable.
A close second is CrowdTangle, but Tweetdeck forever."
Ep 18 - Samantha Wood audio
[00:00:16.21] David: What is up? We got yet another edition of the business of social powered by STN Digital. You know what we do each and every show, we talk with the experts to learn and stay up-to-date on the ever-changing digital marketing industry, I mean, essentially we're trying to help you out with the FOMO that is always present here in our world. So we examine how brands successfully increase their affinity, analyze trends; formulate strategies to create cutting-edge content in the digital marketing space.
I got a good one for you today, Samantha Wood; she's the director of digital at the reigning Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles. And I think a lot of times especially in sports there's this ... I guess this thought that if you win it's easy, and I think the Eagles has done an incredible job of, sure, they won the Super Bowl, but they capitalized on every single opportunity through content and their strategy and just the way they went about it.
If they would have sat back and just let the follower count happen they would have been somewhat successful, but they really attacked it head-on and I was really impressed with what they were able to do. And really had some earth-shattering growth numbers and things that really impressed me. So I wanted to get her on the show and meet her, and I think you guys are really going to enjoy this one. Samantha Wood the Director of Digital at the Philadelphia Eagles.
She is the director of digital and social at the reigning Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles, Samantha Wood joins us on the business of social power by STN Digital. Samantha.
[00:01:49.00] Samantha: Hi.
[00:01:49.40] David: How are you? I got a first very easy question for you. Who is the best Philadelphia sports star of all time?
[00:01:57.30] Samantha: Of all time? Oh, God.
[00:01:59.36] David: Very easy.
[00:02:01.07] Samantha: Oh, what? Is this like a trick question?
[00:02:03.52] David: I mean, I say easy fictitiously, like it's obviously a very tough question.
[00:02:07.31] Samantha: Yeah, I know right. Honestly, it probably surprises you to say, I mean, I feel like Dr. Jay, like so the legend. I don't know how you can beat him. I mean, there's a lot that I probably should have said instead of a football player. But listen, we are proud and storied tradition in my City of Philadelphia, so happy to have that be a hard question.
[00:02:28.59] David: You guys have had a lot of success as a sports city the last couple years for sure. So well, first and foremost, congrats on the promotion to director of digital.
[00:02:39.57] Samantha: Hey, thanks.
[00:02:40.59] David: How has that changed your day to day?
[00:02:43.39] Samantha: It literally hasn't. It's one of those things that we've gone through a little bit of a ... as every digital department does, going through a little bit of an adjustment period when it comes to how we're working with broadcast and how we're working with marketing and all those different departments. So it was one of those things where I was sort of acting as that anyway, and so in order to make a bit of a clearer structure we did a little bit of a reorg. But yeah, it's great, like I very much appreciate it. It's been a fun two years here.
[00:03:14.10] David: Very cool. So you've been with the Eagles since 2013, right? Or when did you start?
[00:03:18.57] Samantha: Yes. It was I want to say like April or May of 2013.
[00:03:25.26] David: Yeah, I creep to your LinkedIn profile, I figured that was right. But no, 2013. I'm interested to hear from you like that's a long period of time in digital, five years. STN, my agency, we started five years ago and the difference from what we were selling back then to now is light-years away from each other. So how did that department look back in 2013 when you were there and how does it look now?
[00:03:46.27] Samantha: Well, it's funny because I started here then but I've been doing digital for a long time and the changes back when I was an intern in Boston when it was like, what, like 2010? It's been a huge evolution and something that's been really interesting. But in terms of how we've changed at the Eagles I alluded to it a little bit earlier, but part of how we were structured before was sort of we had this broadcast pillar and then the internet came along, digital became more important, so this sort of tacked on a mini department next to it.
And it became pretty clear that producing content of the shows that we already had in place and then sort of shoehorning them into the website or into digital was just not ... it's not efficient, it's not a good experience for fans, it's not a good experience for our sponsors. It didn't really make a whole lot of sense. So back then it was sort of the very beginning process, and one that I think we've now come out of for better of melding sort of our digital, we have a web developer, social people, all that sort of stuff with our really talented ... I'm looking at Emmys on my editor's wall right now across the way, like really, really talented, more old-school broadcast production people.
So merging that and then sort of training each of us on the world that we didn't know, so training our editors on how to edit for social and training our social people on how to produce really polished high quality content that maybe they're not as used to before, that's not the easy content to make.
So that was sort of what it looked like back then, and like I said the whole process it's not ... it wasn't a quick one, it wasn't an easy fix. But it's well worth it, it's well worth it, because we're a far more efficient department now. There's I would say 22 of us, so we're on the fatter end of NFL production or NFL content departments. But I think we produced out at a really great rate and it works for how we're structured internally.
[00:06:01.16] David: So you guys very much I guess include the broadcast and the digital and social and kind of all come together and work together on the different initiatives it sounds like?
[00:06:10.01] Samantha: Correct. So from top to bottom, anything that goes out for the most part from the Eagles. We also have a marketing department, we have a common boss but there is a separate department. But for the most part anything that you see from the Eagles comes across this department, and because of that that makes it relatively easy ... not easy, it's never easy. But it makes it easier for us to use our resources wisely. So I always preach to people, like we never shoot for one thing, if we're shooting something it's being used in multiple places.
We're a big fan of repurposing things, bringing it back up again because frankly that's how the internet works and that's where it used to be seen as a cost center. So it's something that is important to us to make sure that we're being as efficient as possible with the time and money that we're spending to make this happen.
[00:07:00.40] David: I want to allude, there's something you tweeted about recently that 44% of NFL team social are ran by women now, which again I'm sure back in 2013 was not the case, and you've seen kind of that growth. Can you speak a little bit to that about kind of what that means and how you've kind of seen that change over time?
[00:07:20.06] Samantha: Yeah, that's another interesting one, like way back when I used to be the only woman in the room a lot. And that was sort of the part for the course for sports, and now it actually happened a couple years ago we were at an NFL social sort of summit, and the two ironically women that run the summit from the NFL side pointed out that the attendees at the summit were exactly 50/50, male/female, and that was something that we ... It was sort of like it happened slowly and then all of a sudden, so it was like it was something that we didn't even notice was happening especially because we operate ... I'm friends with a lot of people in other teams, but we're operating day to day in silos, so you didn't notice sort of how that ratio was changing until we were all in one room together.
And then last year it's shifted slightly to 44, I mean, I'll take it, that's still great. It's not something that we're nitpicking on, but the shift overall has been a really encouraging one. And I think it has, at least in my opinion, I think it has a lot to do with whatever sport you're working in, the sports side of things. So the football side, the hockey side, whatever it is becoming more progressive. So like I said I got my start in hockey, and it was a very traditional sort of way of running things. It was sort of like boys club I guess is the best way to put it. And I wasn't able to do a lot of the things that my male counterparts were able to do for better or for worse.
[00:08:55.49] David: What do you mean by that? Like, just like recreationally, like as co-workers?
[00:09:00.51] Samantha: No, more like locker room access on certain shoots, stuff like that. And you know what? It's funny because it wasn't that long ago, but now it's like you don't hear that because people are very aware of equal access. So it was something that started I think in the media side of things obviously with all the female sports reporters that require access to the locker room, and then but it's funny to see that the internal side of things was I think secondary. And I think it's because it's not as a public issue when it's internal employees.
So every team does it differently, I'm certainly not saying that we've solved sexism and everything's great, but I think it's a credit to the GM's, the coaches, even the players, they dictate really the policy when it comes to who's allowed in. And not only physically allowed in but trusted and respected.
[00:10:02.03] David: Decision makers.
[00:10:03.29] Samantha: Correct, yeah. Respected with a sport that they've spent their entire life growing. So that I think has been the biggest thing in terms of shifting that focus, and then of course not to be outdone but the really, really, really talented, driven women that are not afraid to make sports their passion and to make it a career and to pick what I think is one of the most competitive industries that you could pick to work in. So we all have our challenges, but I think that is what's contributing to sort of the more parity that we see now.
And I think creatively it makes a ton of sense, because I don't think it has a lot to do with like gender but I think creatively people are more open to different perspectives, and so the fact that that has sort of led the way in making the ratio more equal makes a lot of sense to me.
[00:10:58.22] David: Well, it seems kind of simplified or dumb down, but if you have female Eagle fans you need females to be able to speak to them the right way, right? So it's very simple when you look at it, but it helps tremendously.
[00:11:10.04] Samantha: Yeah, and that's one of those things that I harp on. Way back when it used to be, okay, we have to reach more female fans, every team has had this conversation, right? And before it used to be, okay, it's a stereotype but let's put some pink on it, let's do sports 101 event, and it's all the best of intentions but it's not something that female fans generally respond to because they're already fans. So I always say that marketing to women is just marketing to fans, it doesn't have to be ... I think it's important to be inclusive of everybody's perspective, and I think having a diverse staff helps that, but I don't think it has to be like, "Here's our female-centric campaign," because if you're making good content men, women, young, old, whatever can all appreciate that content, and diversifying it so that there is something for everyone. But yeah, having women and having people of different backgrounds definitely helps that for sure.
[00:12:12.10] David: Of course, yeah. All right, so I'll ask you to take me through the Super Bowl season. I just want to get granular with you in terms of numbers and how you guys accrue on digital, because I think I started following you on Twitter after you got a major retweet, I think talking about your Facebook growth or Twitter growth like over a month period, like insane numbers. But can you just let the audience know the growth you saw on your channels during that Super Bowl run?
[00:12:39.20] Samantha: Yeah, it was ... I'm not sure offhand, I'd have to pull up the tweet the exact number, but it was definitely through the roof. I mean, no doubt about it. I think the interesting part about the Super Bowl season was we harp on the underdog thing, but like it was true, way back when, even when we started the season nobody internally I think maybe except for Doug Peterson realize that that's where we were headed, and so the growth factor that we saw over this last offseason or the previous offseason and then the beginning of the season was really, really promising. And it had a lot to do with what was going on the field, but we still weren't in that Super Bowl zone yet, and we had ...
[00:13:22.07] David: Well, then Carson Wentz got hurt, and I think people are like, "Okay, it's over." But then, "Wait a second, we still have a chance." That was interesting thing too.
[00:13:29.15] Samantha: So yeah, our strategy ended up being like, "Okay, well, let's ride this one out. Let's see how much we can go. We never know, just like with anything, you don't know what tomorrow's going to hold, you don't know if there is going to be tomorrow." So we went with the more is more strategy, we were producing more content than we had ever produced before, we were posting more content than we had ever posted before.
We took a look at our international strategy, took advantage of the further stage that we had, and because of that work that had been done throughout the entire season when we finally made it to the Super Bowl it was like, "Okay, great. We didn't have to like turn it up to ten, we were already at ten." So we were ready to really capitalize on a bigger stage, and so as a result we made leaps and bounds with our Facebook, with Twitter, with Instagram, and that was especially with Facebook that was something that was a real win for us because most teams lost fans on Facebook last season. So to continue that growth and be the fastest growing accounts in the league was huge.
And now it becomes sort of like after the fact looking back on it, like how do we quantify what we were responsible for and what the team was responsible for, right? Like, we can't just pat ourselves on the back on being number one if all those numbers came from the Super Bowl. So we've taken a close look at the dates, at the games, at the wins, losses, and tried to control for all those different variables. And all in all it was a success all around, so it's a good problem to have for sure. But now how do we continue to outdo ourselves basically?
[00:15:12.01] David: I won't name names, but there's a few people in our industry that would say, "Well, you won the Super Bowl, so for course you were going to get those hundred thousand fans." And obviously that's just simply not the case. If you're at the right place at the right time with the right strategy and the right content, that's when you really hit that jackpot of, oh, my God, we grew 500,000 fans type deal, rather than for you to sat back. Sure, you would grow some fans, but it's really hard to have that ROI of what would happen if you did nothing, and then what did we do and kind of what the numbers were. So how do you I guess kind of quantify that internally?
[00:15:46.23] Samantha: So yeah, so you're right. I mean, it's totally ... I'm going to say it's a fool's errand because I think it's a worthy exercise, but I don't know that there's ever going to be a true answer for that. How we've done it internally is taking a really hard look, cross referenced our schedule with the peaks and valleys in our growth over the last season. And we sort of ... I forget what date we put it at, but somewhere like before the Carson game, it was somewhere in like November. I think we were comparing year-over-year because that was prior to ... We were still doing very well on the season, but our record was pretty similar to the previous season.
So it was definitely ... It was like one game off, so we were able to sort of see it's never going to be truly apples to apples, but see more of an apples to apples comparison because of our strategy shift. And we made a very like conscious decision to change our strategy and to do what we felt was best rather than what people were suggesting to us. And we saw that year over year, I mean, the numbers speak for themselves on that.
We of course then look at the Super Bowl numbers and we congratulate ourselves, but honestly we don't get too bogged down in trying to figure out how much was the Super Bowl, how much was us, because you're never going to get to it. I think just successfully being able to see that our strategy did make an impact and did prime the pump for the continued success that we had in this role, and that's really all we can ask for.
The big thing at least ... I don't know who told me this once, it must have been a boss at some point. But when you're winning you maximize the opportunity, when you're losing you maintain. That's it, like that's really all we can ask for ourselves. And so I think we successfully did that this past season.
[00:17:27.42] David: Well, you'll see some teams that aren't doing too well in the field, but they'll focus on schedule release and Halloween and these different tent pole events that that's when they can go all in. But like you said we know we're going to be 2 and 14, so we'll probably kind of hush up on a random week 12 and maybe put more resources into the areas that you can control type deal.
[00:17:49.17] Samantha: Yeah, and there's a lot of teams that are doing a fantastic job about that. And it's one of those things that like ... I don't want to say that the Super Bowl was easy, but winning masked a lot of errors, and losing really shines the light on all of them. So teams like the Browns, Ally Raymond at the Browns is just like killing it. I think she's great. And then even teams outside the NFL, I think the Sixers way back when before the process or where the process began, I think they did a fantastic job.
[00:18:19.11] David: I think Alessandra was on the keys back then.
[00:18:21.58] Samantha: Yeah, Alessandra and Max Rapoport are killing it, and then Kurt took over, he's been there for a while now.
[00:18:28.50] David: Good dude.
[00:18:29.34] Samantha: Absolutely, and I think those are the teams ... We had Ally from the Browns speak at the last NFL summit, because that's ... we expressed to the league that's what we find helpful. I mean, everybody's perspective is helpful, but to see how you handle a losing season and still continue that engagement, I mean, that's when you're really separating ...
[00:18:48.52] David: Yeah, I feel like if you go Owen 16 and your net positive at least with one follower year-over-year, you probably have done your job.
[00:18:58.08] Samantha: Right.
[00:18:58.47] David: So that's impressive on itself. What numbers do you look at internally? Obviously a lot of people always look at the Patriots; they always have the most likes and retweets, because they have the most fan base. Same with the Yankees or the Lakers and other sports. Engagement rate is usually where you can benchmark and say, "How are we comparing with all the other teams?" But is that the main metric? How else do you kind of stack up?
[00:19:23.39] Samantha: Yeah, engagement rate's definitely a big factor. I think growth rate is another one. I don't get too bogged down in grown because like you said there's all sorts of reasons that an account could grow. But yeah, engagement rate's sort of like one, two, and three for us. We take a look at that all the time, we're constantly on Crowd Tangle seeing who has the best engagement rate for the week, who's got some over-performing post, what other people are doing, and trying to make sure that we're crafting content that keeps that very hot, but yeah, the Patriots, Cowboys of the world.
It's not only is it not fair, it's just not productive, right? Like, that's not telling us anything. So we want to make sure that good or bad, that we're looking at the numbers that are actually going to make an impact in how we can then change the strategy. That's a big thing, like I don't care if you know every single set about yourself, if you're not prepared to make those adjustments today and not next season, you got to change it today if that pattern is clear enough, then it's a waste of time. So for us, yeah, I think engagement rate is what I would put my money in.
[00:20:36.32] David: Yeah, I think it's a smart way to look at it too. I remember, there's been some things I've talked to that almost become bitter at those North Stars of the world like the Cowboys or Patriots. But you can either get mad because they have more followers and they have it easier, or you can kind of benchmark yourself among more of an even playing field like engagement rate and kind of go from there. So I agree.
It's interesting; Eagles have more followers on Twitter than Facebook, which I thought was interesting. You always think Facebook, every team has tens and tens of millions. But was that a consistent effort, did just kind of happen based on your fan base or how'd that work?
[00:21:12.48] Samantha: That blew my mind. So I was looking up sort of like corporate sales recap numbers, and they wanted the most recent ones and I was like, "Wait, hold on." And I could not believe it, and it was funny, I think Twitter ... I tweeted that and Twitter was like so thrilled with themselves too. And I mean, it's just very interesting, and I think there's a couple things that contribute to that.
So for people, the Facebook's like I think right like 3.1 million, Twitter's out like 3.3 I want to say. And I think the biggest contributing factor for that is just the makeup of our fan base. So the rumors are true, we're a very, very avid, very passionate fan base. There's not a time ... and maybe that's changed since Super Bowl, but I think by and large there's not a ton of bandwagon Eagles fans, like the entire City of Philadelphia you see Eagles tattoos, dogs named Carson, the whole nine. So I think because of that Twitter really lends itself to that type of content, to that type of fan base, and to the type of fan that really wants to see that sort of every single ins and outs, every single update from across the league. So we've sort of taken advantage of that.
And we put equal resources honestly behind all the platforms, because we realize that there are different audiences in all these places so I don't think it makes sense to completely say, "We're putting all our eggs in one basket." But the Twitter growth is one that happened over the past ... I think we were like 15 weeks in a row this past two offseason, it would go the fastest-growing Twitter account in the league, and it was prior to all the ... It was like we like had it totally to keep the tab, we couldn't believe it was still happening. And even other teams were like, "What are you doing?" And I thought, it looks like, "Are these BOTS?" Like, what? Like, I made the league look into it because I was worried that we were just getting a bunch of fake followers, and we weren't, and it was I think it's because of that, the makeup of the fan base.
And then on the flip side Facebook, I mean, obviously that went through a whole different adjustment period over the last couple years. So I think the growth factor as a platform as a whole is just not there. And then of course with the NFL and the different controversies that have surrounded it, Facebook I think feels that weight a little more. So while we did grow over the last season I think it just has to do with the demographics and the fan base. That's what I suspect anyway.
[00:23:42.54] David: So when you found that number out, and I guess going back then and even now, I guess are there certain platforms like a Twitter, Instagram that you put more time or effort or original content on more than a Facebook because you've kind of figured out where your fan base gravitates to? Like, I guess where do you rank those with the Eagles specifically in terms of priority?
[00:24:02.45] Samantha: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things, because I feel like you paint yourself in a corner a little bit when you're like, okay, we care ... I know this is a hyperbole, but like we care about Twitter, we don't care about Facebook. Like, that's not ...
[00:24:13.35] David: You have to care about Facebook, that's important.
[00:24:14.28] Samantha: Right. Like, over three million fans. And the tool that Facebook offers especially when it comes to international, bar and none, like we still rely on those. So for us I'd be hesitant to say that we're changing sort of the priority structure and the content. I think like I talked about before, producing content that works on multiple platforms, so we're creating different versions of the same piece of content literally every single time, most of the time we post.
[00:24:45.53] David: Vertical for IGTV and then sixteen by nine for Twitter type deal.
[00:24:49.39] Samantha: Well, we haven't touched IGTV yet, I'm not a believer on IGTV yet.
[00:24:54.19] David: Oh, well, interesting. I haven't ask you about that.
[00:24:54.56] Samantha: Yeah, I'm watching. Yeah, I'm watching.
[00:24:56.58] David: You're waiting.
[00:24:58.08] Samantha: Yeah, I'm not the type of person that's like first for the sake of being first. I think there's been a lot of stuff coming out. I'm not saying that IGTV won't grow, but I think at this point we always ask ourselves, "Is the juice worth the squeeze?"
[00:25:13.51] David: I agree. I think it's a little clunky right now, like they got to find a way to include it inside the Instagram app, inside the feed. But to like have a separate app and like click the little icon and see if there's updates, it's not very user intuitive yet.
[00:25:25.50] Samantha: Yeah, and I always try not to make the mistake just because I don't use it doesn't mean other people aren't using it. You know what I mean? But with IGTV I've paid close attention to the stats, I paid close attention to sort of the top creators and how people are currently using it, and I haven't been impressed yet. And that may change, I would not be surprised if it did, but everybody has limited resources so it's makes sense to me to put those resources towards what we already have built and to continue to grow those, because we know that those are going to work.
[00:26:01.37] David: Yeah, and I think what excites people is like the algorithm changes are so frustrating especially with the Facebook type deal that if a new thing comes out, and that platform is going to put everything towards it. And in terms of organic reach, I think people are always trying to find those pockets of organic reach as much as possible type deal.
[00:26:17.25] Samantha: Yeah, and listen, if people have like treasure trove of vertical content that they're sitting on, do it, like whatnot, right? But like this would be a whole ... I mean, we do cut vertical, we shoot vertical for a certain things. We cut square more often than not, so if it works for people I think great. But for us it's just not something that I don't foresee us doing in the near future, but that like I said can always change. But yeah, when it comes to platforms in general I don't think ... I mean, we all have our favorites, but I think it comes down to taking a piece of content and then challenging yourself to how it can be translated for each platform.
I'm not a subscriber of like, "Oh, it has to be just for Instagram. And then it can't go anywhere else." I think that's not a realistic way to run an efficient production workflow. And so I think if it can work on Instagram ... It doesn't mean just take the same thing and throw it somewhere else and hope for the best, but how can we then change it and be more efficient with the resources that we do have is the big thing for me. So we don't put all of our eggs in one basket. Personally I think my favorite is Instagram just because it's fun to curate that, and I think we have a great photographer that really stands out. But ultimately I try not to play favorites because that's when you get yourself in a trap and assume that everybody behaves on the internet just like you do.
[00:27:47.50] David: Yeah, that's a good point. All right, but I'll ask it one more different way, let's say Cory Clement and Carson Wentz have some funny dance they do after the practice, you're getting on a plane, you're about to lose service, you only have time to post it on one platform. Where are you posting that video?
[00:28:03.56] Samantha: That's a great question. I know the answer. We will post it on Twitter, reason being Twitter amplify. So this is another one that I think people don't realize. We're opted into the monetization programs for all the platforms that make that available, so Facebook, Twitter, YouTube. We've had huge success especially on Twitter generating incremental revenue that we just did not have before and that nobody thought that social could generate.
[00:28:37.28] David: Right, is a 15-second ad going to roll before my 15-second dance payoff?
[00:28:41.25] Samantha: Probably.
[00:28:43.10] David: Ugh, you're killing me as an Eagle fan.
[00:28:44.35] Samantha: Probably, but it's one of those things that I think then that tweet can then be embedded into an article later by our editorial staff. It's one of those things that we tread lightly, we try to make sure that we're not spamming too much. But I think when it comes to juice being worth the squeeze, it is, because we're able to justify our existence as a team that does not sell tickets. I mean, we do sell tickets, but we don't have any to sell. So it's hard for us to prove why we're here, and that is a great way to do it. So you got to give a little to get a little, you know what I mean? So ultimately the fan experience is always going to be the number one top priority, but we got to make sure we still exist to give those fans that great experience.
[00:29:31.25] David: Hey, we grew up watching Seinfeld, Fresh Prince of Bel Air, 18 minutes of content, 12 minutes of commercials. So I mean, people could chill out on a couple seconds of pre-roll.
[00:29:42.05] Samantha: Right, we pay close attention to the engagements that's on that, and to the feedback on that. And I've definitely turned off monetization in the past for shorter videos when we get negative feedback regarding that, because however much that video is going to generate it might not be worth people being mad about it. But it's a give-and-take, so it's constantly changing, but it makes me very optimistic for what we're going to be able to do as a revenue generator for the team, which is something that in my ten years of doing this wasn't really a possibility before, well, not directly anyway.
[00:30:24.22] David: That's actually a good segue way to my next question. In terms of monetizing your social feeds, maybe not so much on ... I mean, amplify is one thing, but kind of your systematic content that you guys are posting weekly. How successful have you guys been to be able to kind of say here's our digital inventory, here's what's available for the 2018 season, and here's kind of the price point we're putting on these different franchises?
[00:30:47.02] Samantha: Yeah, pretty successful I'd say. We all work very closely with the corporate sales department, and I mean all of us, it's not just like me sitting in meetings and then telling the creative staff what to do. It's working together to achieve whatever goals the client has. And so that has made a world of difference when it comes to our sponsorship strategy, because it's that shift, back when I started it was sort of like put a logo on things, right? And that was the old way of doing it. Much of the reason for that was because of how we were structuring our content with broadcast shows and all that sort of stuff, it makes sense. Now it doesn't make sense anymore.
So the shift has been for more ... and it's just like preaching the choir, but for more integrated content. And so while we do have ... we have this spreadsheet of doom that's like every single piece of content, if it sponsored, if it's not sponsored, whatever, all that stuff. So if they need a quick one like here's what they have sort of the menu, but really nine times out of ten where we're heading and what we end up doing is, okay, sponsor X, potential sponsor X wants to reach this demographic, wait, here's where we think that deal could be structured and then we talk and we work together there as a group with the corporate sales staff, both with their service staff, with their sales staff, and then with our creative group to come up with something that either we already have or something that we've always wanted to make but didn't have the cash for or something that we think would be cool, and with the ultimate goal of obviously making something cool and then also integrating the brand.
Easier said than done sometimes, the Gatorades of the world are the easiest way to do that, but it gets a little harder when you have companies that aren't related to football in any way. But I think where there's a will there's a way, and I think we've been pretty successful especially in recent years of actually making cool content that works on both front. It's not like, "Here's the cool stuff, here's the sponsor stuff." Like, we can do this together and it does not have to be ... We don't have to forego one for the other.
And that, honestly it's credit to our corporate staff, nothing gets sold without us verbally talking about it, approving it, being on board with it so we're not in the tough spot of being like, "Oh, crap, we sold this. Now we have to make something that we wouldn't have normally made."
[00:33:21.19] David: Well, it seems like you guys have figured something out there, because I know with corporate sales they've been so used to selling in arena and billboards and just the old scale sales approach. And they don't necessarily know how to speak the social lingo or know what the difference from a vertical motion graphic to a static Twitter graphic is. So it sounds like you guys have kind of been able to blend those two pretty well.
[00:33:44.38] Samantha: Yeah, and I mean, listen, the staff's great, but you're right, I mean, they're sales staff they're not digital staff. But I think there's a humility that like, "I don't know everything about corporate sales, and they don't know everything about digital." So we have really, really honest conversations. And in previous positions I will say that that relationship was never like that with corporate.
[00:34:06.59] David: That's an industry-wide problem I think, yeah.
[00:34:09.35] Samantha: Absolutely, right? Like, it's just ... There's just that sort of diametrically opposed a little bit, but it doesn't have to be, so I think creating that relationship and being just honest with each other, like I will tell a sales guy, "Hey, that's a bad idea. But here's a good one," right? Like, "Here's something else to think." It's always a no-but. We never just say, "No, we're not going to do that." Because we realize that we all have the same goal, right? And corporate has done a great job of making sure that their goal is also making cool stuff, not just checking the box and hoping the check clears, right?
So everybody from the top-down has ... The buy-in is there which is the number one thing. And it takes a little bit more time but ultimately in the end I think it saves us time because we're not fighting about make goods and whatever.
And I think we realize like we want to make cool stuff but we're also not like ... like we've all sold our souls a little bit, right? So we're all sellouts, so I think let's just be honest about how we're doing it and let's make the best of it. And I think it doesn't have to be the like battle relationship that it is in a lot of organizations.
[00:35:29.19] David: Totally agree. So I wanted to move on to I guess just the player side of things. I talked to Josh Tucker over at the NFL with the NFL player initiative, and I thought that was super interesting how they're rolling that out. But obviously I think the NBA's done a tremendous job of just propping up their athletes like the LeBrons and James Hardens. And I think because those guys are ultimately social and they're kind of out there in front of you ... Football's always had the issue of course, they're wearing helmets, it's a little harder to get in. With Eagles specifically how much success have you had to kind of peel back that curtain for fans and show the personality and kind of make these guys their own personalities?
[00:36:10.45] Samantha: I mean, that is the number one sort of thing I love about the Eagles is the unification, and I hate to be like rainbows and sunshine about it. But the access that we're afforded by football is something that I've literally never seen at any other organization, we eat in the same place, we work out in the same place. There is an organizational standard that we're all on the same team, we're not fighting against each other, and you can trust us basically. So I was just giving a speech in front of the entire team last week about social stuff and having that opportunity and having coach be ... take time out of his team meeting and be like, "Hey, this is important." And realized sort of the value that it has for the organization, but almost more importantly it has for the players because we really want to protect our guys as well and improve their brand too.
[00:37:03.18] David: Don't Facebook Live after ...
[00:37:05.33] Samantha: Yeah, I mean, all guys do Instagram Live all the time, and it's one of those ... Yeah, listen, if that's the worst thing they do, great. But it's not necessarily about playing defense, but also playing offense. So we have structured a program at the Eagles itself sort of born out of guys coming down in my office and being like, "Hey, do you have any photos of me?" Now we have a formalized program where each of the guys has a folder, it's honestly as simple as that. We used to text photos to guys, but each of the guys has a folder, our tag photos drop automatic in there, they could go in at any time, download, use them as a however they please.
[00:37:47.01] David: Is that like a green fly or is it just like box?
[00:37:50.09] Samantha: No, so we use ... We just use PhotoShelter. We've found that there's a lot of programs out there for actually creating posts for the players, and I think for some organizations it make sense. For us I'm not interested in trying to think about ...
[00:38:05.16] David: On board them onto a new platform, yeah.
[00:38:07.02] Samantha: Yeah, well, on board but more importantly how ... I don't want to assume and put words in [unclear] mouth or try to think about how Carson Wentz would form a tweet or whatever. Like, I think it's got to be authentic to them, and I think they're all fully capable of doing it. They're at an age where they understand how to use social platforms, so as long as we ... I think we just want to give them the raw material, and that's typically photos, but will often give them if we cut a cool video of them and they want it we'll give it to them.
And I'm not worried about credit too much, and I'm also not worried about crafting exactly what the wording of what they're post is, because I think they all have a different voice and it would be ... For me I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try and water that down. I guess sitting at what they would say with it.
So honestly we just make it available, it's just through PhotoShelter, they have a folder, they go in, they download, they can do what they want. And honestly it's been hugely successful and it saved us a lot of time from texting guys. But the biggest thing on the front end it helps their social but really they play to the camera more, they trust us, we can ask them to go out on a limb a little bit more, they recognize who we are, they know. And so we end up with so much better content because of it, because they know that if you're flexing at the camera or you're coming directly over to me I'm going to send you that right after.
And so it helps them, it helps us, and it's been a really great position for us so that we're not just sort of like faceless people that are always standing around with cameras and phones and stuff. It's now more personal relationship, and they know that I'll help them with whatever they need. But yeah, I don't think it has to go as formal as a green fly, a socially, whatever. But for some people that does work.
[00:40:05.21] David: Yeah, I was just always curious to kind of geek out over the delivery method of how these guys, especially when you have a roster of 53, how to manage that type deal? But that makes sense, everybody has a folder and it's pretty intuitive.
[00:40:17.28] Samantha: It doesn't have to be over engineered.
[00:40:19.05] David: Yeah, exactly. Everything always has to be too difficult. Have you guys done anything with the players? Obviously they're your biggest influencers in the community with the team, mostly. I'm sure anybody that follows the Philadelphia Eagles account probably also follows Carson Wentz, etcetera. Have you guys done any type of I guess crowd sourcing campaign for a community event, for an announcement where you're asking players to do something on behalf the organization or are you waiting for that?
[00:40:46.12] Samantha: Yeah, we've gotten into it. We usually don't get as literal as being like, "Hey, post this or like please post it this," or whatever. Normally what we do is sort of like you get more flies with honey sort of situation, so it'll be like, "Hey, we put out this really cool hype video. Here's the video if you want it." And obviously the player is going to post it because it makes them look super cool. And if we're making cool stuff ... I love, my favorite thing is when players are liking our Instagrams or retweeting us or whatever. And it's not because, I mean listen, I love the engagement, I love the increase in impressions, but it's because I know that we hit on something that represents them and that they approve of and that will ...
[00:41:32.47] David: If you're hyping up the players you guys did a good job.
[00:41:34.45] Samantha: Right, yeah, exactly, like the players are like, "Damn, like this is like so cool." Then I'm like, "All right, great, we did it." Because we're speaking on their behalf as well. So we normally don't get so literal as to ask them specifically to do that sort of stuff, but they do it. And it's because I think we hit on ... we try very hard anyway to hit on something that they can be proud of.
We make highlight videos for them every week, just internal highlights that they show at the team meeting, and putting the songs that they request. Obviously because of the songs we can't use that ever outside of that, but it creates sort of an understanding of like how cool we can make stuff for them and how they should be proud to be a part of this team top to bottom, not just what happens on the field.
So yeah, we don't get super literal but I think it comes naturally, and it's sort of a quick pro quo and we're always ... we're willing to help each other, and it doesn't have to be a formal request.
[00:42:44.53] David: Yeah, I mean, I won't name names but there was a certain social person that I know that was able to speak with the Star quarterback twice in three years. So there's those stories too. So I see that you guys ... It is a top-down approach, right? Whether it's from the owner or the coach, like some coaches are super old-school like, "Get this social media thing out of my locker, we're trying to win a championship." So that's awesome.
[00:43:06.38] Samantha: Yeah, and I mean, that's what they're entitled to, and that's when the rubber meets the road and you got to learn how to be extra creative. But we are currently ... It's not necessarily always going to be the case, but we are currently in a situation where there's not a lot of egos, and where everybody understands what social can do. And that frankly, if anything in the last two years it proves that heavily embedded content can ... you could still win with that. It's not a distraction, if anything it gets them hyped up. So I think there's room for all of that. And I can understand and I can commiserate, because I've been on teams like that before and it's not easy.
[00:43:47.20] David: I'm sure we could we could talk all day on that stuff. So I want to get into just some ... the people that listen to this program are folks like yourself, but I think always trying ... I have this too, I know you have it as well probably, but just the FOMO, you're always afraid that you're going to miss out on the next update or someone will be talking about something in this social digital world and you're like, "Wait, what are you talking about?" I'm just interested to see how you stay up on trends in the industry as a whole and just any tips or tricks or anything like that that you use.
[00:44:20.23] Samantha: Yeah, mine's probably simpler, and that is a lot of group chats with my counterparts in this league and other ones. And honestly, listen, I mean, obviously I'm always on Twitter, I'm always reading up on what's the latest and greatest thing, I want to make sure that when somebody stops me in the office and says, "Hey, have you heard about blah, blah, blah," I'm not like, "What? Huh?" So obviously that's huge.
But for me the single most valuable thing is being able to text our little group, I have like a couple different ones, but like text the group and be like, "Hey, have you guys ever heard of this? What's the deal? What's going on here?" Because the fact of the matter is the only place that I'm competing with the Patriots, the Bears, whatever, is on field. So we're not competing for the same fans. While, yeah, we're being ranked against each other engagement wise and all that stuff, we use that as benchmarks not necessarily because we want to kick everybody's ass; it's just benchmarking to see where we're at.
So there is a camaraderie that comes with being in the social space, and there's a realization at least in our little group that it's not like we have to keep secrets and make sure that we know whatever, whatever. Like, there's room for all of us, so I think being able to have an honest conversation with my counterparts and be like, "Have you talked to this person about this? How'd you guys make that? What's going on? Did it work? What are the numbers?" Whatever, it's huge, because then you have the knowledge base of however many different markets, however many different organizations at your fingertips, and that is more valuable to me than any sort of blog post or whatever.
There's a lot of people that will post about social, especially social and sports and not really have that perspective. It's more for outsiders and for insiders, and so it's one of those things that you have to be careful whose opinion you're taking and I trust the opinion of the people that are doing the job that I'm doing because they realize sort of the context that comes with that. So it's kind of a cop-out answer, but it's true.
[00:46:27.46] David: No, it's good. Well, I know it's a Friday so we're going to get you out here pretty quickly, but I want to do some rapid fire with you. Some quick question, so my first one for you is what is the future of social media look like? That's a loaded question, I know, but as we look ahead two, three, four years down the road, what do you think of the things as digital folks that we're going to be focusing on more that maybe is not at the forefront just yet?
[00:46:55.12] Samantha: Yeah, I'm not necessarily ... I think a lot of people would probably say like ARVR, I'm not necessarily on that though yet. Well, I am on the boat, but like in terms of like that being the future. I think I would expect to see sort of in the way that we've done with Instagram stories formerly known as Snapchat, that sort of thing, that more of a micro level constant update, if you can even get more than where we're at now. Because of the growth that we've seen especially on player social, that's going to continue to be more and more important because why would you go to the team when you can go directly to the player, right?
So teams are going to be challenged with figuring out how they fit in that space and leagues especially too are going to be challenged with that as well because they have the double team, and then player sort of degrees of separation. So I think that player's voice is becoming more important. Real-time update is becoming more and more important, and less polished content becoming important because it just goes away so fast that it's not going to be realistic for everything to be super polished. And then video obviously, I'll put my money on video all day every day.
But what that looks like is going to be very interesting. Yeah, but I think in the sports world I think players ... I mean, just bet on players all day long, because that star power is one that I don't think has been fully tapped in every league. The NBA is getting there, but I don't think they're there entirely yet.
[00:48:29.45] David: That might lead it to my next question, what do you think the NFL as a whole, as a brand, can be doing better when it comes to digital and maybe it leads more into propping the players up more or giving them more content or access, but your thoughts on that?
[00:48:45.42] Samantha: Yeah, I mean, that's a loaded one because there ... I think the NFL has a lot of strengths, and I think it's no secret they have some challenges as well. I think the biggest thing beyond just the players would be the sort of the corner that we're in right now with the broadcast rights. Making the game as available as possible on any platform, and it's available to as many fans as possible and not just ones that can pay sort of the game pass and that whole sort of thing.
That is going to be something that they're going to have to tackle at some point, no pun intended, because to really truly grow the game you can't rely on the fans that are getting older now. So to grow the game, to get to the younger demographic, you have to go sort of where the NFL is, where the NBA is going a little bit but even past that which is just making it as accessible as possible to watch the game in any format that the fan feels comfortable. Fish where the fish are.
So, and that's not going to be possible for a little while now because of the sort of the deals that are currently in place, but I would imagine that that would continue to change and grow especially internationally, it's going to be an even bigger priority.
[00:50:01.26] David: Yeah, you make great point, there's a lot of stuff coming up in 2020 but at least by the next rights deal there's going to be no choice but to go where the fan is and make it easy.
[00:50:08.35] Samantha: No doubt it, you have to. Yeah, you have to. So I think that's going to be a tough one to tackle because there's a lot of stakeholders.
[00:50:17.43] David: There's a few billion dollars in the way.
[00:50:20.05] Samantha: Right? It's so complicated, and I'm glad that won't be on my plate.
[00:50:26.09] David: Yeah, and we talk about that on the program a lot, it's like where it's going, but where it currently is is where you make all your revenues, so how do you move but not like totally screw all your revenue? So it's not an easy question to answer, but the answer like you just said is it's coming, so let's start at least headed that direction.
[00:50:46.40] Samantha: Yeah, I mean, you know the train's coming so build the tracks, right? You got to think about it that way, and the revenue with the huge base there is. I mean, NFL is still doing bananas ratings, like it's still ... I think they said it was like out of 100, the last 100, like the top 100 TV shows in the past year 71 of them were NFL programs. Like, that's insane, like you cannot tell me that the NFL is dying or whatever, because it's not yet. But it's one of those things that like you got to change your tactics a little bit. And it's going within the next ten years or so that's going to be a huge debate, and you want to make sure that you're growing it for the future as well.
[00:51:29.52] David: From a team standpoint, I know there's been restrictions that's working in NFL as well, on the team side as far as highlights and gifts and all that stuff as well, do you think like going into this season are you pretty happy where things are or there's still shackles that maybe you would like to live without?
[00:51:47.41] Samantha: I mean, listen, ask any team person, they would love to just post highlights, willy-nilly, no rules, Wild West, do whatever you want, right? It's not realistic, and we realized that. So yeah, I know, I think leaps and bounds from where we started I think honestly what ... It's just about being a little bit creative in how we're using the highlights. I think there's no secrets that highlights do extremely well, so we want to make sure we're taking advantage of what the NFL offers us.
And we've gotten to a place where I think there's a lot of different options, so it's not like we're really handcuffed. I mean, we just have to be mindful of what those are. So honestly it's not something that I'm constantly banging down their door being like, "Give me more," because we haven't really hit a lot of their maximums that they're offering us right now, so I think it's been good in that way. And I think as long as it gives us a little space to play and a little runway, well, I mean, I can't really complain because that's what they have to do to maintain the league and ultimately that benefits every team as well.
[00:52:53.05] David: I was scared there for a second, like two years ago, and you probably remember more than anybody, but no gifs, no moving graphics, no motion. And I think everyone's kind of ...
[00:53:01.04] Samantha: Yeah, we did that like electric football sort of like we made like a joke of it and did like my hands like in the gifs and we sort of did new highlights. And it was funny, it was like ... but there was a kernel of truth to that, so I think honestly I can't complain with how they've handled it since and being open to what the team perspective is.
[00:53:24.14] David: Yeah, and the market push backed and they understood and they changed accordingly.
[00:53:27.48] Samantha: Yeah, we have businesses to run, so like I can't really expect much more from them, so I appreciate their openness to that.
[00:53:35.09] David: Okay, what is the one social tool that you cannot live without?
[00:53:39.56] Samantha: TweetDeck. TweetDeck forever. I love TweetDeck.
[00:53:45.09] David: People sleep on TweetDeck, but it's a very critical tool.
[00:53:47.42] Samantha: People think you need ... Oh, my God, I have been using that since day one. People think that you need like fancy social publishing stuff. And listen, if it works for you, great. But TweetDeck for my money which is no money because it's free, is the best. And we, at Twitter a couple months ago, and I literally told them ... they were talking about new stuff that they're going to offer and what do you like, what don't you like. And I raised my hand, I was like, "I already mentioned it all day, but I need to tell you that if you keep away from TweetDeck then we're going to have problems, because I love TweetDeck." So I think that's the single most useful thing in terms of not just like managing Twitter, but just staying up to date on what's going on and what the mentions are and that social listening aspect of it in sort of a frictionless way is so invaluable. And the close second is Crowd Tangle, but TweetDeck forever, yeah.
[00:54:42.06] David: Love it. Boston or Philly?
[00:54:43.57] Samantha: Philly. I'm from Philly. I went to school in Boston. I love Boston too.
[00:54:48.49] David: I know you went to ... worked for the Bruins a little bit, so I figured ...
[00:54:51.45] Samantha: Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I got my Stanley Cup ring, came back to Philly, that was it.
[00:54:57.12] David: You're a true champion, I like it. All right, favorite athlete ever?
[00:55:01.05] Samantha: Oh, God, favorite athlete ever. Jon Dorenbos, love him, our long snapper, Jon Dorenbos.
[00:55:09.19] David: I was going to say, "Who?"
[00:55:10.35] Samantha: Yeah, so he was our long snapper a couple of years ago ... well, he was for years he was year. He got traded to the Saints, ultimately found out he had a heart condition so he doesn't play football anymore. But he is the most talented magician I have ever seen, so now he's like on tour, he's just like a delightful human, so great to work with, God's gift to content. And he's just like how athletes ... like you can look at him and see like he's got a life after football, and he always treated everybody with a lot of respect and sort of under ... He got it, he got it. So every time he comes in, big hug, I love Jon Dorenbos. He's my favorite.
[00:55:51.49] David: I feel like I'm going to say about you like, "Samantha gets it." And then you just know what that means. All right, so I kind of already asked, but I usually ask favorite social platform right now.
[00:56:02.08] Samantha: Oh, Instagram. Yeah, I like Instagram a lot. I think it's just fun, it's my favorite on my personal side of things. It's probably the one that I opened when I like wake up in the morning. But yeah, I love Instagram, but they're all my kids so I have to make sure that I'm always active on them even if I'm not posting myself but always on it because that's how I really see what the fans are doing. I mean, how are you going to manage Facebook if you don't have a Facebook account?
[00:56:30.15] David: Exactly. Favorite comedy movie of all time?
[00:56:34.29] Samantha: Oh, my God, comedy.
[00:56:37.25] David: I ask this question to everybody, and this tells me a lot about the human, so be careful here.
[00:56:41.35] Samantha: Oh, my God, that's so difficult. Comedy movie of all time. I really love Caddyshack. It's a good one, yeah. Listen, I mean, I'll watch anything. My favorite movie of all time is That Thing You Do, but I don't know if that counts as a comedy, that's more of like a dramedy.
[00:56:58.39] David: I should ask you what's your favorite sports movie of all time.
[00:57:01.37] Samantha: Bull Durham, yeah.
[00:57:03.58] David: I'm more a Titans type of guy.
[00:57:05.34] Samantha: Well, the Titans great, but Bull Durham is better.
[00:57:08.37] David: Favorite news source.
[00:57:10.33] Samantha: The Onion these days. To be honest, my favorite news source, honestly, I mean, I look at Twitter a lot. It sounds bad. I'm not often looking at like ... I mean, I'll go to New York Times every now and again, but it's not ... I don't have a subscription there. But yeah, does Twitter count? I feel like it should count.
[00:57:34.03] David: Yeah, that's where I get all my news, just RSS feed style.
[00:57:36.26] Samantha: Exactly, yeah.
[00:57:38.43] David: And then your guilty social pleasure follow, the guilty pleasure social follow?
[00:57:44.06] Samantha: Guilty pleasure social follow. I follow a lot of weird Instagram accounts. Oh, Comments by Celebs, my favorite Instagram account.
[00:57:54.52] David: That's a new one.
[00:57:55.41] Samantha: It's a good one, so they literally just screenshot celebrity comments on other celebrity Instagram posts. And like I don't follow a lot of celebrities on Instagram, but it like gives me my fix, and you can like see like John Stamos talking to John Mayer or whatever, like it's a really genius account and it's one that I wish I thought of.
[00:58:13.02] David: That reminds me there was ... I don't know if you remember the website, it was Did Trump Tweet It or Kanye Tweet It.
[00:58:17.45] Samantha: Oh, my God.
[00:58:18.40] David: And you have to guess, and like you can't. I mean, you miss every time. You just think it's one, but it's the other.
[00:58:24.00] Samantha: Right, exactly.
[00:58:26.09] David: Well, there it was, Samantha Wood. Thank you so much, that was a very interesting conversation. I think we've got a lot of value out of it.
[00:58:31.28] Samantha: No problem.
[00:58:33.00] David: So hopefully we'll have the conversation once again soon.
[00:58:35.59] Samantha: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. I was just texting them and telling them I'm going to be late to my next meeting.
[00:58:40.10] David: Oh, yes, see, I'm going to get you out of here.
[00:58:41.59] Samantha: No rush for the wicked.
[00:58:42.55] David: So thank you so much, and we will talk soon.
[00:58:45.43] Samantha: Thank you. I appreciate it.
[00:58:46.55] David: Thanks, all right. All right, a lot of good stuff in that one. Somebody that is kind of seeing the Eagles from 2013 to 2018 and how that department has changed. 22 people access to that many people to create amazing social content is really unheard of right now in the sports industry, so that's amazing. Also the fact that the head coach is allowing her to speak in front of players and they workout in the same area. They've really figure that out, and then the digital side and the sponsorship side, having that cohesive of a relationship, that's rare as well. So the Eagles are doing some things right on the field and in the front office when it comes to all that. I was really impressed to hear just how well all those different departments work together. That really helps I think reach their digital goals when everybody's kind of pulling along the same rope. So that was interesting. Even some cool tips I think on TweetDeck, I'm a big fan of TweetDeck as well, and just to see their growth so far.
Overall really a valuable conversation, I really appreciated Samantha Wood. I'm excited to continue these conversations and kind of geek out as we always do over all this digital goodness. All right, so there it is. Business of social, as always I want to thank Auntie Lightning and Sam Howard, shout out to Dave Ferker who missed this one for the first time, so I'm going to shout him out as well. And it's always a good one. So once again my name is David Brickley, this has been another edition of the business of social podcast powered by STN Digital.