How to Strategically Approach Marketing with Industry Pioneer Tina Lloyd
Tina Lloyd, a pioneer of the industry, is the Director of Content Strategy at GolfNow. Prior to that, she was the Director of Social Media for Golf Channel. Her career mission is to connect and grow the game of golf through social media and second screen experiences.
On this episode, Tina breaks down her role and new products in the golf space. She dives into how she approaches marketing, her core beliefs when it comes to social platforms, and how she markets to their different audiences.
Here are the highlights:
[35:25]: What have you seen on the social side of golf when it comes to monetizing your platforms and your different pieces of inventory?
"When it comes to monetization, you can't just put a branded logo on something. Unfortunately, we see this a lot. If you're going to do a branded content piece you should at least do something that will resonate with your fans. We're very fortunate that we're now moving in that direction. It can be tough for us sometimes because a lot of the content advertisers bring to us they've already created. When that happens, our hands are tied to push out the content because we know we're going to make money even though we know it won't do well."
[44:06]: Is there anything you read or follow that you recommend to the audience to help them stay ahead of the curve?
“In terms of the media industry, I subscribe to newsletters from Cynopsis for sports and e-sports. There's so much stuff in the e-sports community that we can learn from. It's a great daily digest where I can understand what my competition is doing."
Ep 22- Taking Risks When Running A Conservative Brand with Tina Lloyd
[00:00:16.20] David: All right, guys, she is the director of content strategy at Golf Now, Tina Lloyd joins me. Tina, thanks so much for coming on.
[00:00:22.15] Tina: Thank you for having me.
[00:00:23.41] David: All right, so I always start off with a random question, you're a 2018 Hall of Fame inductee at the University of Miami. So I know your husband is a former NFL kicker, you have three little boys, right?
[00:00:35.47] Tina: Yeah, three little boys.
[00:00:36.32] David: So are they going to be golfers or NFL kickers when they grow up, what are you thinking?
[00:00:41.59] Tina: We'll take either. No. They're still so young that we haven't really pushed them into sports. I think given our backgrounds we kind of take a step back and letting them trying to figure out what they want to do. But my oldest is getting into golf, he has his moments, he definitely got burned out of it, I think he was like I'm done with golf. He wants to do football, my husband's a little reluctant about that given everything that he's seen from friends and some stuff in the NFL. But yeah, I think they're still so little that they're just trying to figure out what sport they even like.
[00:01:17.03] David: Right on.
[00:01:17.57] Tina: If it was up to them they'd all be YouTube stars to be honest.
[00:01:20.49] David: Yeah, exactly, that's actually the better trajectory probably. What's the best score or best moment you have as a golfer?
[00:01:30.16] Tina: So my best score was a 65 in an amateur event up in Michigan, in tournament play. But I've shot 63 in non-tournament competitions, so 63 is my overall.
[00:01:45.24] David: My best score is 163, so got some work to do. Well, first of all congrats on the move and the promotion recently. Actually it's kind of like a theme on our podcast, a lot of people that come on have just recently got promoted, so definitely props to you on that. But you were the director social media at Golf Channel now moving over to Golf Now, which is a division of Golf Channel still, but can you break down a little bit of your now new role and kind of what you oversee day to day?
[00:02:10.35] Tina: Yeah, so I currently ... still very close to the social team, I'm still kind of in a transition stage ...
[00:02:19.52] David: Shout out to Jackie, right?
[00:02:21.37] Tina: What's that?
[00:02:22.34] David: Shout out to Jackie.
[00:02:23.52] Tina: Yeah, yeah, shout out to Jackie, she's the best. So yeah, that's why I obviously I don't want to leave her hanging. I bet she knows I'm always here. But currently I'm overseeing all of the content strategy as it relates to our direct consumer products and services. So golf advisor, Golf Now VIP, revolution golf, and everything that's kind of under the Golf Now umbrella as it relates to content that you can see on the site or through some of our membership services.
[00:02:53.40] David: So essentially all the digital products that you guys offer underneath Golf Channel, essentially?
[00:02:57.39] Tina: Yeah, so Golf Channel is kind of the umbrella company that Golf Now rolls up into, and then ultimately we roll up into NBC Sports, NBC Universal and then Comcast.
[00:03:08.36] David: A couple of layers there. All right, so I want to get into a little bit of overall marketing strategy serving as a director of social. And I know you go to a ton of conferences and you're constantly educating yourself on kind of where the industry is headed, but how do you approach marketing, like as you get this new role and you're kind of digging in, what are some of the first things you would looked at and what's kind of your core belief as you market to a golf audience?
[00:03:31.49] Tina: I really think that it always comes down to data and understanding your audience. And I think you're going to hear that from probably everyone. But really for us on the Golf Channel side of things specifically on social we had to even look at our social platforms differently and how we talk to one audience like on Instagram way different than we talked to the Facebook audience, and even the Twitter fan. So for us that was always a big important part of my role and overseeing the social strategy was we need to talk to these people differently, we can't serve them the same piece of content.
And I would say knowing your audience, knowing what voice, knowing what they like, so now being more on the direct to consumer products and services my job is to make sure that the user experience is beneficial for these members. So one of the things that I've been diving into is the data and understanding what videos the members are consuming, so that we can create more content, doing research studies to see is there content that they want that we don't even have which, yes, that is true, we have stuff that we're not giving them.
And working with our product and tech teams to make sure that the roadmap for these features and services is user experience in mind, because if we were to go without any data and just say, "Oh, this is a really cool feature that we want," well, that's great, but you have like a lot of people working on the product and tech teams that you're going to have them like spinning their wheels to get this done only to realize that it's not something that the user even cares about. So I would say day to day, the data, that's always important to me.
Also I think as it relates to what you're offering your fans I think not only from a paywall or subscription service like we offer, I think also what you're giving your fans to bring them in. So what premium content can you give them outside of there, whether it's on social or on a blog? I think that you want to also build advocates and create awareness, and a way that you're going to do that in my opinion is across social media because nowadays there's not a lot of people who don't have a Facebook account.
[00:05:47.29] David: Yeah, that's where all the eyeballs are for sure.
[00:05:50.27] Tina: Yeah, and I think we have the power of TV, and when people are on TV like how are we bringing to them that second screen and then what message can be served them, what piece of content are we offering them that they're not seeing on TV? I think that that's super important. In my opinion it comes back to data and comes back to the user. And I think that if you always kind of keep the customer or member in mind first and foremost, it makes a lot of other decisions easy down the road.
[00:06:22.48] David: Why do you think ... I think a lot of brands get mixed up on that, like I mean, it really just goes down to A/B testing your fan base and seeing what they like and dislike. That seems I think to you and I are pretty simplistic, like that should be the number one thing you look at. But why do you think it's not as well-recognized or things that a lot of different brands don't do on a daily?
[00:06:42.39] Tina: I think a lot of people are scared to try things. I certainly wasn't when I first started here, especially for as much as we're part of NBC and like ... but we're golf, we're very conservative, and we've done a lot of testing and I think that you have to just kind of push it out, as you know we've pushed out some content that your team's created, and some people are like, "Whoa, what the heck is that?" But then you see how well it performs and you're like, "This is why. We have to try these things because we'll never know if our fans like it or not."
And I think especially if you can automate an A/B test I know like through Facebook tools for business manager, you could do a lot of A/B testing, there's a lot of products and services out there that you can do like to optimize your website landing page even. So I think that people just get scared because even if they have the data and they realize that their fans are younger and they know what they want, they're afraid to push that piece of content because it might be a little bit off-brand. And I've found that social almost becomes an alter-ego of your company, and it becomes kind of like the human connection between what you're seeing on TV, like there's actually a human behind social media and sometimes people forget about that.
And I think that it's just taking a risk, a lot of companies have multiple approval levels, I was fortunate that I had leaders who trusted me, trusted my team to make the best decision. And there was a couple times where I was like, "Okay, my bad." But often times we learned a lot more by trying something new about our fans that we didn't expect. I think we heard at the conference we were just at that it's oftentimes not the golf-centric sort of clip that wins the big campaign, it's the pop culture spin on that or a meme or something crazy that typically steals the show.
And it could be frustrating at times especially if you've put a lot of effort into a campaign, but you also have to be able to know your audience to know that, hey, there's a huge crossover between our fans and The Office, so why don't we do something fun with that?
[00:09:04.30] David: Well, it's funny you mention that because golf is to your point very conservative, very quiet announcers, Tiger at the 18, they have a don't take a picture in their backswing, all these different rules in golf and very conservative. But we worked on a piece of content where we had Tiger Woods with his shirt off calling a big Daddy Mac, and that's like that ... But to your point it works on social, but if you always do what's been done in the past like nowhere in a million years looking at Jack Nicklaus and the history of golf would you probably post content like that in the world of golf. But trying new things and you miss every shot you don't take in my opinion.
[00:09:40.53] Tina: Yeah, exactly. And it's exactly what you said, because if you don't try you'll never know. And what's the worst that's going to happen? You have to take it down, okay, well, at least we learned. We got that a few times.
[00:09:53.44] David: So how have you battled that? Because it sounds like you didn't have that many layers of approval, but I think another way that marketers have a tough time is they want to try those things, but they're constantly stifled by maybe someone that's been there for 25 years and says we don't do it that way, we're always going to do it the way it's been done. Any pointers or any ways that you've been able to work around maybe trying to say, "Guys, let's push the envelope a little bit. Let's try this. It's not going to hurt."
[00:10:18.00] Tina: Yeah, I think building relationships within your building and organization is really key, that's something that I really, really pushed hard for my first couple months here, and now in my new role I'm working on as well. Because we do ... through Golf Now we've acquired quite a few companies, one of them being Revolution Golf. Revolution Golf is primarily at the core, a direct response company and service. And I think that I'm very well-versed in that having come from an ESPN on TV background, I understand the value in that, but I also understand premium instruction content.
So I think finding a happy medium, and I think it's having multiple conversations before like just saying like, "I'm a big believer in no surprises," my former leader here at Golf Channel always told me like no surprises, like don't wait till the last minute to tell me you're going ...
[00:11:11.14] David: And I get it, they don't want to get a text at 11:00 at night like, um, we have a problem, so at least giving it to them, it makes sense.
[00:11:17.51] Tina: Yeah, so I think it's always over communicating what your plans are but really building the relationships before that, so that you're having multiple conversations before you decide to do something. And I think through that, and again, coming back to data, if you're able to sit down with whoever your leader is that might be having been there for 25 years and done something a certain way, and kind of ... even if it's just another company, a case study, to show like here's what they used to do, here's what they're doing now. I think it would be worth a test just to give this a shot.
[00:11:47.46] David: That's a good point.
[00:11:48.47] Tina: And setting like a start date and an end date for that test and kind of going from there, I think that that's ...
[00:11:56.02] David: That's a good point. I feel like a lot of people are scared to be the first, but if there is a case study or a competitor that tries something and it really works, then it kind of ... it pushes home what you're trying to do, so that definitely helps a lot. So that being said, with the golf audience are there any fun A/B testing situations that kind of surprised you or change your perception, maybe something you thought would work that definitely died or something that you didn't think that would work that worked really well?
[00:12:24.15] Tina: Yeah, I definitely have a lot of examples of both. I would say more recently something that I thought that would work that didn't was a lot of this ancillary content that we had our predator, our social media producer, editor, produced with our David Alexandra at the open.
[00:12:45.30] David: She's great by the way.
[00:12:46.34] Tina: Thank you, yeah. She is awesome. So we created a lot of fun around the course sort of content. It didn't get the numbers that I thought it would.
[00:12:58.19] David: It's at the Ryder Cup, right?
[00:12:59.06] Tina: We did it at the open, we did it at the Ryder Cup too. Again, we were just kind of like trying to like keep testing it. Because I do think that it will pick up, I think our fans just aren't used to seeing this sort of content. We tried it at the open, and although it wasn't well-received with our fans it was very well-received internally, which was great because our EVP, Molly Solomon, who oversees the social team, because social reports into digital into production versus standard marketing, most companies report into marketing.
So that was great, but it didn't really necessarily with the fans. So then for a Ryder Cup we kind of tweaked it a little bit, made it a little bit more social, kitschy, like towards Ryder Cup. And it did a little bit better. So I think that was one that I just thought was going to kill it because we had done something in the end of 2016 at Presidents Cup, very similar where it was called Alex in the city, and it was Alexandra walking around the city on a spin on like sex in the city. And that perform pretty good, so we thought, "Oh, this is going to totally kill it."
And when it didn't, we were like, "Oh, man, like what did we do?" Obviously like the algorithm had changed by then, so that was part of it. But yeah, it's something that we're continually testing because we know that in the long run that that's really good content. But you know what? We did learn was maybe that content shouldn't start first on Facebook or be pushed out on Twitter, maybe it should generate from YouTube and reach that broader audience that we're not reaching there. So a lot of learnings that were taking in, digesting presently.
Something that I didn't think would work that did, I knew The Office one that like our team worked on in the war room would do well ...
[00:14:55.28] David: They're pointing the fake guns at each other.
[00:14:57.29] Tina: Yeah, the hypothetical gun. I just ... I didn't think it would do as well as it did, because it was Tiger's making a charge and you just got a really like big leaderboard. I just thought like ... And we had rights to that event, so all the highlights we were pushing out I thought for sure ... like one of these chip-ins or something like that it's going to outperform, our fans love golf, but it was at the end of the day it was The Office.
[00:15:28.11] David: That was the number one ... You said that was the number one tweet, right? Or the number one piece of content.
[00:15:32.17] Tina: Yeah, so what the team did was they essentially superimposed ... I think it was Jordan Speith, Rory McIlroy, Tiger and maybe Tommy Flea. I can't remember exactly.
[00:15:43.31] David: I think there's only three of them.
[00:15:44.42] Tina: Yeah, okay, so then, yeah, it was Tiger, Jordan, and Rory, and their faces on top of The Office characters, because it was like essentially going to be ... obviously we couldn't call it a shootout given the day and age that we live in. But yeah, so it essentially was going to be that heading into the final round, and that it just ... It sealed the deal. I mean, I don't even remember what the total number was, but it was by far one of our best pieces of content in the year.
[00:16:11.33] David: Yeah, back in the day before STN and I did some work with the Knicks and was live-tweeting the game, and Carmelo Anthony hit like his fifth 3-point in a row. And all I tweeted was Melooooooooooooooooo with like 17 O's, the most retweeted tweet in Knicks history. Like, so I think to your point the reason that The Office worked though is everybody's kind of giddy, the final round here, and you just hit on that pop culture A, and then B what all golf fans, because you're talking about data and what the fan wants, they were all thinking that at the moment, so when they saw across the timeline they liked it.
[00:16:47.17] Tina: Yeah, another one I thought was going to work actually your team produce, and maybe this was just my crazy idea in my mind that I thought was going to work. But The Stranger Things one with the sunken bunkers, where the golfer walks to paint the picture ... for those listening, a golfer walks into the bunker and essentially is slipped into the upside down world. Stranger Things. A lot of people around the company we're like, "What the heck is that?" And I'm like, "Have you not seen Stranger Things?"
[00:17:12.21] David: That's the thing, like it's tough, I think ... I haven't even watched Stranger Things, but I know so many people have heard so much about it, but I wouldn't even get that. So it's like there's these cult followings, Game of Thrones is probably a lot of different people understand the message, but yeah, but again you try it and ...
[00:17:29.55] Tina: We tried it, we tried it, and that's what I always try and empower ... try to empower in the social team was you got to try things, we've done a couple mistake. Trust me, one of the mistakes more recently we did was during the US Open, somebody on my team, super creative, he came up with this concept of you get a formal invitation every year to play in the US Open. But the US Opens always known as an event that is super difficult and demanding on the golfer, with thick rough and super fast greens. And he created kind of like a fake letter to the competitor saying like, "And should you decide to choose under par you might want to reconsider your actions." Because it's that hard, you're going to shoot over bar.
[00:18:15.29] David: Yeah.
[00:18:16.17] Tina: And we put it out, the team asked me like, "This is a little risqué, what do you think?" And I'm like, "You know what? I think it's funny. We're not like really poking fun on the USGA, we got to give it a shot." And literally within like five minutes our head of editorial had a phone call from the USGA and was like, "Who did this?" And I'm like, "I approved it. We'll take it down."
[00:18:37.56] David: My bad, yeah. You know what's funny though? Because I've talked to a lot of people, what I've been saying recently is we're getting to a point where these different social platforms, you're programming them almost the same way you would a 24-hour network, right? Maybe they're not at that scale but it's starting to become more and more similar to how we're going to program our primetime hours. I thought about Saturday Night Live recently because they did a skit on Fortnite, and I got it because I know the industry and I know Fortnite, but I was thinking like, "Is that broad enough for the entire US audience? Like, do enough people know about Fortnite?" Or they've done skits on Stephen A. Smith, and like you and I would probably think that's funny because we were in sports, we're watching ESPN. But does my mom think that's funny, does my sister who doesn't ...
So I think it's same with social, it's like you tried those knit stains, and I think SNL is doing the same thing, but we're all doing the same thing as well, we're trying.
[00:19:34.35] Tina: I agree, and I think a lot of it as you said was testing, because I think right now we're all kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall, and it's like, okay, that worked, that worked, that worked, meh, scratch that. So I think we're all just trying to test, and I think when it comes to like the Saturday Night Live example there's a lot of stuff on Saturday Night Live because I fortunately and unfortunately don't follow politics as closely, so a lot of the politic stuff at the beginning might appeal to like to you or to somebody else, but not necessarily to me. I just want like the pop culture stuff when I watch SNL, but I'm not going to not watch SNL because of that.
[00:20:07.42] David: And I think too they always upload every skit to YouTube and they can go on data and say, "Did that Fortnite video get what they thought it was going to get? Or should we stopped making gamer type content on linear?" So I think it's interesting.
[00:20:19.11] Tina: And maybe their goal is to bring in a younger audience to SNL, because SNL's always been known as kind of back in the 70s, in the 80s or something, my parents always watched, and I kind of grew up with it on the TV. But nowadays people aren't necessarily watching the TV anymore, so how are you going to bring in that younger audience? All right, we're going to do a bunch of funny Fortnite skits.
[00:20:40.58] David: And I've noticed that too with Jimmy Kimmel and Conan, I feel like they're producing their shows now specifically for YouTube, like they have their linear still, but they're making all these skits like mean tweets or carpool karaoke and all these different things, because they want ... or a Kevin Hart skit with Conan O'Brien, they want to get the views on YouTube more so than is this going to resonate to the linear audience, which is interesting.
[00:21:05.37] Tina: Yeah, they're probably monetizing it pretty well too.
[00:21:07.31] David: Oh, yeah, I bet they are, absolutely. All right, so let's get into the Tiger Woods madness. You and I have talked about this a lot, but it's tough, I think in the game of golf there's been discussion where - do we ride this car into the wheels fall off, do we try to build up the other stars? And there's been a lot, Dustin Johnson, Spieth, Rory, I think they've all had like those three six-month, year stretches where we thought they were going to take over the sport, but it really hasn't happened. And we see this with Tiger winning his first major. And it just went, I mean, crazy. Never in golf has anything been seen like that when he's walking down 18, and I think ratings were up 206%, I saw your tweet on that. So what do you make of all this? How does golf deal with Tiger?
[00:21:52.42] Tina: I mean, I think I've said this and probably others have said it too, so I don't know even who to give the proper credit to in our building for saying it. But it's everybody's like, "Oh, Tiger moves the needle." Well, no Tiger is the needle. He's an event. It's been crazy, and yeah, I did tweet out like ... I definitely tweeted out like the GIF of like Seinfeld, people like dancing around, because that is literally how Golf Channel is when Tiger is on top. Like, I think not only because there's so many passionate golfers that work here at Golf Channel and Golf Now, but because we just truly want to see like a comeback story, not only for him but for our sport.
For many years golf was on the decline, and with the resurgence of Rory Spieth, Ricky, like these guys, this younger breed it's fun to watch them compete, it's fun when they're ... especially a few of them are up in the top trying to win the tournament. But Tiger just has this global like appeal, and he is for us a Michael Jordan. And I don't think that we will ever, and I could be wrong, I could be wrong, I don't want to be like part of like a scratch video 30 years from now saying like, "I don't think we'll ever see anybody like Tiger Woods." But I really don't think that we will.
I think that Tiger .... To come, and I'll just kind of put this in perspective for most people who maybe don't follow Tiger as closely as us here at Golf Channel, but May 2017 Tiger is pulled over for DUI. Somehow, someway that guy walks away unscathed, didn't hurt anyone, damage the heck out of his rims, his car. But somehow ... We don't really know the whole story, it sounds like he was on like a cocktail mix of sleeping pills, pain pills, and essentially sleep drove throughout the night. Even to the point where when he was in jail getting blood work and stuff done, that he'd still didn't know what was going on to my knowledge.
And you then fast forward to last year where we pulled in during my example at the last summit I was at, Steph Curry tweeting about Tiger being back, so last December 2017 Tiger plays in the hero challenge. He scrambles, he makes it, and then all of a sudden decides, "I'm going to have surgery." So I think that was like January/February time he ... maybe even later, maybe like March time.
[00:24:25.35] David: Is this a fourth fusion surgery I think?
[00:24:27.42] Tina: Yeah, has a back surgery. Couldn't even walk, and I want to say it was like six months ago there was a video on social of him hitting like half wedges, like easing my way back into this. And I think he was like in a simulator, which is an indoor golf facility. And then to then contending at Valspar which was in like April/May time to then like at FedEx Cup events, like the Open Championship in July, almost winning, and then all the FedEx events, even just to make it to the FedEx Cup Playoffs, the top golfers in the world which he was won. But to go from a thousandth ranked in the world to beating all the top guys, like it was just ... in our eyes, I mean, in my day I have not seen a bigger comeback than this.
And so yeah, I think a lot of people who maybe didn't even follow golf were intrigued by seeing - could Tiger Woods do this? Because I think if you go around the world asking who is Tiger Woods, people will tell you he's a golfer. They know it, they know what he looks like, they know he's got the Nike check on him. So I just think it's such a phenomenon to see him have this comeback story and just show like pure emotion on his face when he did win, because I think he actually was not the stoic immensely tough Tiger, which he had to be to get there, but I think he finally like let go of like, holy cow, I actually did it, like I could barely walk come January and now I won.
[00:25:59.46] David: Was it like I think a Sports Illustrated article that there is ... like shortly after his surgery they were talking about can you come back again. He said, "I'm worried about walking, like I'm worried about playing with my kids, like I'm not worried about competing in a PGA Tour type deal." So I mean, it's football Sunday as well, like I usually watch football all day, I haven't watched all 18 holes of a golf match all year, and I watched every single hole, like I was just flipping back and forth a little bit during commercials and stuff. But it was pretty insane. I think America loves a comeback story.
[00:26:33.43] Tina: Yeah, I mean, just to see all those people following him too. I mean, it's just like ... And if you even saw like the actual other pro reactions on social media, like Tommy Fleetwood saying like, "Oh, my God, he did it." And he was standing right off the 18th hole, like everybody was cheering him on. They wanted to see this comeback story. So yeah, I think it makes for us great entertainment. I think that to know that he is back is a huge thing for our sport. I think that we can only hope that his health will continue, because as a former golfer myself like your health and your family are most important.
[00:27:12.50] David: But I think he have the fastest club speed in the entire PGA?
[00:27:16.57] Tina: I just ... I can't believe he can swing the same way. I just ... I can't even ...
[00:27:20.45] David: With all that torque with four back surgeries, it's insane.
[00:27:23.49] Tina: It's unreal. So obviously whoever is his doctor like is going to be slammed with booking now. But yeah, and I think for his kids too that's cool, because they always associated golf with pain and now to see their dad like in just the pure sort of like global appeal, a mass appeal that he has to a sport that is such an individual sport, I just think it's great and I'm just so excited to see where it comes. But yeah, I mean, it changes things, like when Tiger ... Tiger's in contention engagement is upon social media, our ratings go up, tea time bookings even go up like more people aren't inspired to go play golf.
[00:28:09.00] David: But it's a big deal, I mean, you can charge more for advertisers. I mean, you and I talked about it a little bit, but like the fact that Tiger Woods is back it affects your department, it affects so many different people, it probably affects golf courses all over the country because more people want to get out there and ... I know after I watched it I'm like, "I need to get out there on the golf course again." So what do you think like ... Because you were a golfer and your husband being a field goal kicker too, like I think with field goal kickers like it's all a mental game more so than physical, and so is golf. But after the scandal and all the stuff with his wife went down, he was still healthy but he just could not compete anymore. What are your thoughts on just like the mental aspect of golf and how to have all that talent but really just be able to lose it if you're not like focused, which I always thought was crazy?
[00:29:00.02] Tina: Yeah, I mean, golf is such a crazy game.
[00:29:04.49] David: Psychological war.
[00:29:06.24] Tina: Oh, it is. I mean, you're literally out on the course for five hours in your own head. It's you have to be strong, I mean, that's the main reason why I quit playing was because I got the case of the duck hooks off the tee, and I went to a hypnotherapist, I did tons of sports psychology. I just could not overcome it.
[00:29:29.10] David: Wow, that's like Charles Barkley used to be a scratch golfer, and then now he has that hits, it just happened one day and he can't ...
[00:29:34.39] Tina: He's a little better now, I will give him credit. In my swing it's funny because I've taken a step away from the game for so long and people are like, "Oh, you must play all the time." I'm like, "Eh," because I was so burned out for so long. And when you go through a mental tough ... like a tough time in your game it's hard, like you start over analyzing everything and then you start over analyzing like how you are as a person and like just it trickles on.
[00:29:58.53] David: The why, yeah.
[00:30:00.20] Tina: Yeah, I will say that for me at least I only just recently kind of touched wood, have kind of overcome that, and it's taken a very, very long time. I think when you have your personal life in order, when your finances are in order, like you're able to focus just on your game. But when your game is bad it feels like everything else kind of like domino effects in the opposite direction. So it was just a really tough time for me. So for him to have overcome all of that, I mean, he must be the strongest mental person in the world. And my husband, yeah, having played in the NFL for so many years and kicking so many field goals, he ... I mean, he's got just such a great mental strength, and he's a great golfer, so they go hand and hand.
[00:30:47.22] David: But to your point about you just randomly started hooking all your drives, like we've seen that in NFL for many years where I think Nate Kaeding at the Chargers was the most accurate kicker in the history of the league, and then he just couldn't hit at a field goal anymore, so he was out of the league in a couple games, it's nuts.
[00:31:03.00] Tina: They say your mind can control what your body can do, and even if you visualize ... like for me it was like a lot of golf is visualization in the pre-shot routine, so you look down a line, you visualize the shot. But even if your subconscious mind back there is thinking ...
[00:31:19.07] David: Don't mess up, don't mess up, don't mess up.
[00:31:20.46] Tina: You're like visualizing the most perfect shot, your body's going to do it.
[00:31:30.14] David: I always say this at play ... I play this in and it's a dull basketball league, and it doesn't matter who wins or loses, every time I go to the free-throw line I get like scared. It's just like ... It's probably why I wasn't too good. But just like, I mean, why am I getting nervous in a random reckless, but just like it's that mental thing that you can't help.
[00:31:48.56] Tina: And I've taken a lot of the mental stuff and applied it towards like if I have to present at work or if I have a difficult conversation coming up, like mentally visualize how you want this meeting to go and apply that. So but it's tough, it's tough, it's really, really hard. I mean, no matter how much you practice on the driving range, like that was the other thing like I'd go to these tournaments and I'd be strafing it on the range. And then I'd go to the first tee and I'm like, "What the heck?" Yeah, it was tough.
[00:32:18.20] David: But there's something about golf, because I, trust me I hook it 95% of time, but every time I play I have that one perfect like 220 yards is down the fairway. And that one shot will keep you coming back, like because you think you can replicate it more. It's a weird thing about golf. So from a partner standpoint, sponsorship, obviously when it comes to making these digital platforms under the golf umbrella, it's all about monetization and making sure that those different platforms make money for the company. What have you seen so far both on the social side but also at the Golf Now side about monetizing these different pieces of inventory you now have?
[00:33:00.36] Tina: Yeah, so it's tough because when I first started and we have a lot of clips on .com, and we run pre-roll on them, that's how our company essentially makes money on digital video, so when I came in I was like, "Oh, let's just get this clip and put it on social," and then all of a sudden it was like, "Um, what's your reasoning for doing that? I mean, why don't we give our fans the content on the platform they're on?" And they're like, "Well, just drive to .com." So it was a happy medium that I'm very fortunate, John Henry who's our head of digital video here at Golf Channel, I was able to work with him very closely. And we kind of came up with ... It was so very much like on the fly, but we at least had a Slack channel where we can have a conversation and stay like that hole in one from the European Tour event of Sergio, we're going to post that on social, are you okay with that?
[00:33:54.03] David: Got you.
[00:33:54.53] Tina: So it was tough, and then ... but I am seeing that when it comes to monetization you really have to like not just like put a branded logo on something. And that's a lot of times unfortunately where like the partnerships and ad sales team thinks that you can just do that. And so it's been a lot of conversations back and forth, there's a lot of companies and tools that you can use out there to kind of provide data. We always tell them like what's the crossover and the overlap on some of the top brands that our Facebook followers are following, because you want to at least if you're going to do a branded content piece, you at least want it to resonate with your fans.
So we're very fortunate that now we're kind of moving in the right direction rather, and it's hard though because a lot of times these pieces of content that these advertisers are coming to us with are already created, like we weren't at the creative shoot or the promo shoot with the pros that they sponsor. So we're kind of at times our hands are tied to have to push out this piece of content, because we know that we're going to make money for it but we know it's not going to really do well for them.
[00:35:13.14] David: Yeah, that's tough.
[00:35:14.27] Tina: So we've kind of come to the conclusion like, look, if it's not going to do well for us, it's not going to do well for them like for next year can we just like get on their creative ...
[00:35:22.38] David: Well, and going back to the program, these different channels like a news network or like a 24-hour network, it would be like running a soap opera on CNN. It's like, "Guys, I don't think our audience is going to like it." And for some reason it still hasn't work.
[00:35:36.25] Tina: Soap opera about money or something.
[00:35:39.30] David: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you go from Addison Cooper to a soap opera and the whole audience is like, "Um, this is not what I came to this channel for," which I think obviously you guys aren't unique in that way, like a lot of people in industry are trying to battle that. Do you think in the next few years ... are we making progress every year and eventually everybody's going to understand that we have to program these very carefully?
[00:35:58.57] Tina: I mean, I think you're going to have to because otherwise ... And it takes sometimes putting your foot down, because I think that if you don't put your foot down and say, "We're not going to do this," then three years down the line they're going to go to a different company and say like, "Well, why didn't you guys tell us that we should have just did it this way?" So they're going to go to another advertiser or media publisher that is doing it the right way.
So we are doing some awesome things I will say. We've worked really closely in regards to like our golf advisor brand on branded content with Matt Janela, so that's a great example of where we have an on-air linear show that showcases like for instance Big Cedar Lodge which is Bass Pro Shop's awesome ... I don't even know how many acres place. And that's a great way to integrate a sponsor, because you're showing the travel, the lifestyle, all the things.
Another one that we do is we do on morning drive, these Avis road trips, and we were always getting like these like cuts from morning drive, and Bailey is our David to those, and we know Bailey is like super social on her own social. We know the producer whose producing her is really, really, really good, so we were like, "Why don't you start creating like custom social content for our support of the Avis piece?" So those are just some good examples for us that have worked.
You're always I feel it going to be put sometimes in a hard position where you've got a sponsor that's coming to the table and you're like, "Ugh," but I will say that we have so many ideas in the pipeline that we haven't even been able to touch and execute on that our sales team is trying to get in front of sponsors, so that way if it does come through then we're able to monetize it. One example is that we worked with your team on was the overnight hours during the open and the Ryder Cup, because they're played in the UK and France. How do we catch up our fans on all the content and highlights that they've missed?
[00:38:04.02] David: Just in case they weren't watching at 2:00AM, yeah.
[00:38:07.11] Tina: Yeah, exactly, put together a little mash up so when people are waking up around like 8, 9:00, they see it in their social feed and we could potentially monetize that. So yeah, there's lots of examples like that where you kind of say ... And I think that's also key in the relationship building is like saying, "Look, we have all of these ideas. They work for our audience, like they've worked, we've already been using them. You can get a sponsor for these. That'd be great."
[00:38:33.28] David: Yeah, essentially it's like here's our digital inventory that we currently are doing, and here's some pieces over on ice that we could do. So if there are opportunities for branded sponsorship let's attach them to one of these things that our audience loves type deal. I love that. So we're going to do some rapid fire questions, I know you got to get you out of here quickly, but first one - what's the main brand outside of Golf Channel that you admire or follow and try to get ideas from?
[00:39:03.34] Tina: This is tough. They're a competitor, shall I say that?
[00:39:07.34] David: Uh-oh.
[00:39:08.55] Tina: I like what Scratch TV does. I do, I think deep down in my mind I wish we could do that, and we've tried to explore doing certain things like them.
[00:39:22.39] David: Just buy them and put them under the Golf Now umbrella. It's all good.
[00:39:26.29] Tina: PGA Tour owns them, so ...
[00:39:28.28] David: Yeah, oh, okay.
[00:39:29.30] Tina: Hence, why they get to see all the cool golf highlights. But I just think that they do a lot of things that aren't even highlight-related that my team could do, and we always look at them for some ideas.
[00:39:40.00] David: We talked about it this last weekend or this earlier this week was the piece they released after the Tiger Woods, I mean, that was really, really well done, well timed, so that's definitely ... props.
[00:39:51.00] Tina: Yeah, I think that they do a great job of doing like ... they have like a regular cadence of Tiger Tuesday's and they do like I think ... They just ... They definitely program their social, and they're also ready for those on the fly moments of like literally superimposing. During Ryder Cup, Jordan Spieth, and just ... And like somebody else is faced together, like Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reid they did back in 2016, and it's just one of those things you can't undo out of your mind when you see it. But they just ... they're always on top of those sort of things and they're able to be creative, which I admire.
[00:40:25.42] David: I ove it. From a business perspective what social platforms seem to be working most right now? I think it's interesting, I know that the golf audience is skew older, but you're obviously social is younger, so I'm going to have you rank for me - Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube in terms of kind of where your guys' importance is on those different platforms right now?
[00:40:48.35] Tina: I wish I could say YouTube number one, but unfortunately we don't really ... we're ideating a strategy around that, that's in the work, so come 2019 hopefully that will be high. I would say Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, YouTube.
[00:41:04.53] David: That is interesting, because you think it would be Facebook because of an older audience, but Instagram's still pulling strong for you guys.
[00:41:12.09] Tina: And it's just a great engagement driver for us.
[00:41:15.46] David: And for everybody I think. All right, so I always ask people this, I think in our industry FOMO is a major thing because things move so fast, so what I'd love to get from you like I said I know you educate yourself a lot, you're at a lot of conferences, but anything you recommend to the audience of trying to stay ahead of this curve as it's changing daily, but anything that you follow or read that helps you kind of stay on top of the industry.
[00:41:39.52] Tina: Yeah, so in terms of like the media industry I subscribe to newsletters from Synopsis Sports. And I'm also funny enough even though we aren't involved at all I also subscribe to Synopsis eSports, because I just think that there's so much stuff at the eSports community and industry is doing that we can learn from. I love like the daily digest that I get from Synopsis where I understand like what my competition is doing. I also like the general ones like TechCrunch, Mashable, I follow them, those are kind of my ... I guess my top sort of like daily things that I go through. And I also subscribe because I'm not very good, not very good with staying on top of like business trends, so I describe to this e-newsletter called The Hustle. I just love their emails, I think they're so funny, because they break down stuff like in real people terms. And they do fine gifts and stuff, so I like it.
[00:42:44.00] David: Nice. What is one social or marketing tool that you could not live without?
[00:42:53.18] Tina: I would say primarily because of my background in social I would say like a social scheduler like a HootSuite, because that's actually what we use. And then I would say for my new role for staying organized I actually use Trello.
[00:43:08.59] David: Yep, I've heard good things.
[00:43:10.39] Tina: I like Trello a lot, it's just ... I mean, I think anybody can benefit from that, whether you're creating an editorial calendar or even just your daily personal to-do's, Trello is amazing. I love it.
[00:43:23.26] David: I might have you send me a screenshot of your editorial calendar in Trello, it would be cool. Any advice for anyone trying to do what you do, work in sports and kind of attack this social media marketing thing head-on?
[00:43:33.38] Tina: I would say the biggest thing that you have to ... You can't just love sports, you have to have a passion for it, you have to know that you're going to be non-traditional work hours, you know that ... I mean, you are going to some weeks work seven days a week, and you might do that for three weeks at a time. I think the biggest thing is just making connections, there's so many of us in the sports industry that love helping out others, so getting the right connections in there, making sure that you are working for a company and/or a sport that you truly have a passion for.
For me obviously it makes sense, like golf because I play golf for so many years, like it's a dream job to be able to market something that I love. So you definitely have to have that just athlete sort of mentality, that like no matter what goes wrong, no matter how many hours that you're spending like you're just going to persevere and get through it. So I would say if you are thinking about getting into sports and you're not in it, take a long, long hard look at like ...
[00:44:38.32] David: Amen.
[00:44:40.08] Tina: Like, for instance, like we had the girl from the NHL, Marissa, there and she's working while she's at this conference. And then when she gets back she's at the stadium in the arena, and she's covering the games, and how long the seasons are. And you got to work in between the seasons too to keep ticket sales and all that stuff. So I just think like if you're thinking about getting into sports and you truly have a passion for it, definitely go for it, and just make the right connections with the people. And try and do like even meet-and-greets for like coffee with people that are local in sports, that you can pick their brain and kind of get in, in that way.
[00:45:18.40] David: That being said, what is ... if you can only go to one conference next year what is that conference?
[00:45:24.43] Tina: South by Southwest. Never been.
[00:45:28.19] David: Oh, you've never been. I thought it was you go to every year type deal.
[00:45:32.11] Tina: Never been. I will say another one that I would love to go to I think would be the Adobe Summit, I've never been to that one either. One that I have been to that I really like is social fresh.
[00:45:45.40] David: Awesome. All right, so I always ask people this question at the end of this show, if you can recommend anybody in your network that would provide value and you think would be good for our audience who would that person be that you would nominate to be next?
[00:45:57.59] Tina: To be on your ...
[00:45:59.57] David: Yeah, on the business of social.
[00:46:01.15] Tina: On your podcast.
[00:46:03.14] David: Going to drop some knowledge.
[00:46:04.49] Tina: I think that France Alameda here at Golf Channel would be amazing. He comes from a background from Maker Studio, and there's a lot of big things happening with him in our company, I think that he would be awesome, also not sports-related, but Dave Johnson who I used to work with at HSN, he's awesome, and I think that he would provide a lot of value to your listeners.
[00:46:34.38] David: There you go. All right, I'll follow up with you on those intros. Well, there she is, Tina Lloyd. Thank you so much for joining this show, and we appreciate your time.
[00:46:43.23] Tina: Thank you.
[00:46:44.00] David: All right. All right, so good, once again to catch up with Tina Lloyd. We talked about a little bit on that show we were both at a conference on a panel together earlier this week, so it was good, continuing the conversation, always nice to break things down. I think one thing we're starting to hear a lot on this program and she broke it down is really data, trusting the data, A/B testing, so along with MMA in previous podcast, you're programming these feeds for your audiences and also there may not be the same demographic or same audience across these different platforms, so what works on Instagram may not work on Facebook.
And I think we're starting to see a trend here and hopefully in the next two to three years people would start to understand, especially the decision makers, that it's important to program all these different social media feeds in a very particular way based on what's working, what's not working, and looking at data, looking at analytics. And Tina and her team do a really good job of trying new things, going out there on the friends, especially in golf, I talked about it, golf is such say a conservative sport and there's so many rules and I play golf sometimes, I kind of don't like some of the rules that are out there. But you respect it at the same time. I think when it comes to social media if you're going to succeed in this game you have to kind of create content, create social that people will enjoy and people will engage with. So she does a tremendous job.
Once again, I want to thank Auntie Lightning and David Frerker for their help on this show. It's been another edition of the business of social podcast. I hope you like this one, guys, powered by STN Digital.