Advertising Now vs. The Future with Matt Scheckner


Matt Scheckner, Global CEO at Ad Week, joined the Business of Social to talk modern day marketing, the power of influencers, and what brands should stop doing on social media.

"If you look at the power of advertising in today's world, a lot of that resides with influencers. Take Fyre Fest for example. With a big enough budget and the right influencers they were able to market that festival to millions of people who wanted to go - they made that festival seem real and on the one hand it's incredible marketing, but on the other it's a scary concept!"

Matt gives his thoughts on what brands can do to limit mistakes, the price we pay for data capture in the modern word and how to where to draw the line vs. push the envelope with your brand strategy.

Here are the highlights:

[28:00]: The Power that Influencers have on Brands:


Matt: The whole success of the Fyre Festival on the front end was all because they paid all these models and created the illusion of something that wasn’t real.

I think the danger for brands is you’ve got to sit on the foundation of stuff that is real while balancing that nee to be cutting edge to be innovative. and use the modern day tools to connect. You’ve got to connect your brand and you’ve got to balance risk and reward.

Full Transcripts

He is the global CEO of advertising week. Matt Scheckner joins us on the, so Matt, how are we doing? Doing terrific. Good to be with you this afternoon on this rainy New York afternoon. All right. On bad. So I always take things off with a random question if my research is correct. You've actually played golf with Barack Obama, is that correct? I had. Okay. Yeah. Wonderful place in London called the grow and, uh, got to play with, uh, uh, President Obama and Prime Minister David. Can you have a camera? So I wanted to ask you, I think Barack Obama and a golf for some is really a popular choice in people's dream foursome when you ask them that question, who would you want and your dream for some, it seems like you may have had a couple already, but who, who makes the list? That's a great question.

No, I'm left-handed as a golfer. Okay. Um, I don't love his politics, but I love watching Phil Mickelson and I, right. Yeah. How brave he is and that he tries things that may not always work out, but he's willing to try. Okay. So from that world, I would say from the golf world proper, I would say him. Um, I've gotten to play some pretty cool places, uh, and I really enjoy, and there was a club in la, um, called lakeside. It's still there. That's your universal, and back in the day, it's where all the old Hollywood stars, a lot of them would play. Dean Martin still has a parking space there. Nice.

So if he was alive, I would love to tip the Dean Martin root cause I think that would be a tremendous amount of fun. And, uh, I've always been a great admirer of Anika sorn stam who was really the breakthrough women player. Um, and she was also very involved, um, in the New York City marathon here. Um, a lot of my early career was in sport. So why would say to golfers a Mickelson Storn stam and the one you wouldn't expect would be [inaudible].

I like it, man. Very cool. So I want to get into your story a little bit because you've been doing advertising week now for all 15 years, 16 years, just about. Yeah, it's awesome. But I'd love to get just a quick background, your, your background, right? Like where you started, what led you to think of this conference and, and all that you kind of do in the advertising world?

Well, the irony of having run advertising week globally since we started in New York in 2004 we've expanded to London 2013, Tokyo, 2016, Sydney and Mexico City 2018 and you're launching in Africa, right? Coming up where you got it. So that, so later this year. Um, but the irony is before garden working on this is Backus. Uh, October of 2002 was I had no work in advertising. Um, most of my background was in sport at the age of 23. So, just over 30 years ago, I was appointed as the first ever executive director of the New York City sports commission. And that was sort of a chamber of Commerce for Sports, for New York to bid on new events, collegiate, amateur or Olympic and professional. And to sort of keep what we had. And if you go back and you look at the history of New York's or it's in professional sports alone, you know, all the teams that play in New Jersey, you used to play in New York.

Yup. And I'm a giant season ticket holder. I go to the Games in the Meadowlands so you severance doesn't make its, you know, my office now, seven, uh, seven miles from the Meadowlands right by Madison Square Garden. So what difference does it make? Well, all that tax money goes to trend instead of Albany. So it actually makes a lot of difference. And all of that stuff happened because New York City was asleep. So part of what we did back then, um, was to wake us up to the economic development, uh, you know, part and opportunity that sports presents. And, um, and that was a, a great part of my career. So

advertising what you guys call it, the premiere event for marketing brand advertising technology professionals. You mentioned all the major cities that you have broken down. Um, so what led you to that? You're, you're working in sport, you're working in New York and,

oh, I was not a serial entrepreneur in 1994 when Giuliani came in, he liked what we had built. We were a not for profit, so we had the imprimatur city hall, but we're not under the control of the government and all the money was private. I raised all the money. Okay. So Giuliani comes in and says, wait a minute, we don't control this thing. And I said, no, it doesn't belong to you. And um, he decided he wanted, or I think to become a patronage thing and it give effectively give my job to the son of a donor, uh, and they ruin the sports commission. So I am not a fan of Mayor Giuliani and affectively put us out of business. So after that I opened my own company that was called Empire Sports and entertainment. Uh, the shed irony is the successor to organization accomplished nothing and the thing never came back, which is very sad.

So happily for me, you know, I went out and built a business and um, sort of are like almost like a dog that you would adopt when you don't really know what breed it is. You know, that's sort of my career. So a little bit of special events, a little bit of PR, a little bit of marketing, a little bit of sponsorship. And I did a lot of work in particular for radio city productions under the old owners of radio city. Now it's part of the Madison Square Garden Empire, but in its earlier iteration, radios, any production has been a lot of big, big, big special events as a for hire production company. So I was one of the lead producers on the opening of Arthur Ashe stadium in 1997. Uh, he did a huge Gig for Pepsi in 1999 for their centennial in a y in one show we had river dance Rachels and the rolling stones.

Um, so a lot of big sexy live production and all kinds of different projects and built a little consulting business in the summer of Oh two, I get a phone call from a friend of mine who was a DDB, said, uh, my boss is the chair of the four A's. I didn't know what the four A's was. I know two ways is if you drink too much, if you have a flat tire, you know, on the Brooklyn Queens expressway. And she explained to me the four A's, the American Association of advertising agencies and back then in Oh two, you know, our industry in the world, we're completely different, right? Facebook was on the Harvard campus. The iPhone was 2006. Youtube was 2007, you know, on and on and on. All the issues that we're talking about today, AI, blockchain data, um, a or VR, none of those issues exist at the same time.

Issues that are time, less like talent, like morale, like diversity and inclusion, those you would call timeline. So they were looking for an idea to sort of galvanize the industry, which had chronically low morale, had sort of lost. It's perceived cool as a perception, a perception wise as a career for young people, um, of all color. They recognize there was a real diversity challenge and the imagery and said, could you make a Sundae? So that's really how it started. And through my work at radio city, the then president really liked me and he wanted me to have an office in radio city. His name was Ron and Terry. And I said, Arlan, I don't need an office. I have an office. He didn't know Schaeffer, I want you near me. So he offered me something that I couldn't refuse, which was an office with my own bathroom.

No one could live. So I had an office there and I knew the building really well because after six o'clock, the executive interests closed and the only way in or out or through the stage door. So that sort of forced you to explore the building. Um, and there's this wonderful little space in there called Roxy Suite, the original emprasario. We created radio city music, all the famous rock cats. And the Christmas show, which is still going on today, was a producer named Roxie Rockefeller. And he used to live in radio city. And in that apartment is now the Roxy sweet now cable vision or now Jim Golden's company. The garden used to be cable vision. They own it and they use it for various, you know, high end special events, French and natural when he was alive would entertain there. So I asked a friend and I said, can I borrow the razzies wheat for a couple hours just on instinct that the, where part an advertising week would be important. And um, so the very first meeting about advertising me, cause October about two with the then chair of the forays, the late 10 case and this Gal, I'd be Hirshhorn who worked for him. And that was the very first meeting. And um, you know, seven, eight months later they said, all right, well we're going to go forward with this, do you want to do it? And I said, sure. All right. So actually

read up on you and you really talked about technology and of course when you started the conference back in Oh four, how that's changed the advertising world, but what are the, the main things you're looking at right now that are really changing the landscape of advertising?

Well, listen, I think, you know, the pace of change is much faster then Moore's law, you know, way back when, which was sort of a guidepost for how quickly, you know, technologically driven change occurred. Uh, the speed now, I think it was unimaginable, you know, a few years ago and how that has changed fundamentally, how, whether you're on the creative side about how

campaigns are created or the media side. Uh,

you know, certainly

most importantly, the fuel for all this, the jet jet fuel, which is the brands. So I think whether you're an old school business, it's been around a long time in the, in the so called traditional media, you know, newspaper, magazine, radio, outdoor, all of those have been challenged to stay relevant, to reinvent themselves. Yep.

You know, in some cases, businesses that were great businesses are either gone or longer great

businesses, you know, at the same time others have emerged. Um, you know, I don't think it's true that, you know, all the big hole, it's been very popular. It is say the big holding companies, you know, the IPGs, the Omnicoms publicists, you know, WPP, et cetera are all in trouble. Well, I know there's a lot of great work yeah. Coming out of these holding companies, whether you're on the creative side of the idiot side, uh, the common thread navigating all of this change, frankly is, is the human capital, human, human capital. Um, and that's comes down to leadership. So you've got, you know, companies like McCann hmm. That went out and put a great leadership team together over in this part of the world, led by Chris McDonald and on the comm side, my longtime friend, Jeremy Miller, you look at the work they're doing, it's a phenomenal, you know, they have to navigate without their leader going forward.

But you know, RGA also part of the IPG family, coincidentally, phenomenal. You know, you've still got great work coming out of publicists, nick law, now leading on the creative side. So you know, you've got a lot of great work coming out of these big jobs also, but the landscape is different. You know, we were talking earlier, you know, when, you know, back in the day when we were growing up, you know, you turn on your 13, eight inch, you know, black and white television. Exactly. You had six or seven channels and that was it. And you know, the audience fragmentation now the amount of choice, the good news is for consumers, it's never been a better time, right? Yeah. Between the productions, from the traditional networks, the cable networks, Amazon, Hulu, Netflix, you know, Disney's launching their streaming service. Um, and the things that we can do and why I watched don't, I mean I traveled quite a bit for advertising week and you know, I like baseball.

I then I can watch, you know, the, the yanks, you know, in Japan, you know, on my iPad in real time, you know, it's, it's amazing. Yeah. Right? So, um, all of these things have dramatic implications for brands. And the fundamental way that consumers connect with brands, how we receive information, you know, in the most fundamental way has changed. Right? So when I was a kid growing up in Bayside, Queens, I'd wait for my dad to bring home the newspaper so I could find out who won the games the night before. Yeah. Right now on my phone, I can literally follow not just the game, not just the inning, but I can follow every pitch, you know, in real time. Oh, here on the west coast, when I was growing up, they had delays. So like our games started at four on these codes and we kind of start watching until five and once the sale.

That's all part of that. That's recent history. Yeah. And by the way, in my mind, that stuff's not that long ago. I know. It isn't. So, uh, so the, the pace of change I think is what nobody really saw coming, you know, credit to, you know, the Ken case, the chairman and the guy who first, you know, and I've ly first sat down with to talk about advertising week. I think there was some pretty smart folks then who was smart enough to know that a lot was coming but didn't know what. And the Genesis of advertising was really, it really created as a platform to have those conversations and to help the industry navigate its way forward. Whether you're a 22 year old brand manager or account planner or bye or, you know, uh, you know, the CMO of, uh, you know, a mastercard or Citibank or chase or you know, Procter and gamble or Unilever. So I think that's been, you know, our currency is thought leadership.

Then I, and my listeners will know, we bring up a Thomas, so is linear, right? I think it's a $85 billion industry. Something along those lines on, in terms of advertisement and where that's all going. Because as cable ratings go down and these otts are started,

do you feel like

the fortune 500 brands, we'll start to look at, like you said, the ESPN plus the Hulu, the Netflix is, and start to move their money that way. And can it be a seamless transition from these folks that made 95 96% of their money on linear television ads?

Well, I don't think any of them are going down without a fight. Yeah. And I think you look at NBC, for example, and now their global partnership with sky. So I think that passion too, invent, re-invent, um, to leverage the technology and make that part of the platform offering is very real. And I think that's true for all of the, you know, long established networks. And if you look at the value of even assets like the regional sports network, so you know, that, uh, would just sold off to, I think Sinclair ended up as the winner. You know, that was a pretty hefty chunk of change. So I don't think, you know, every time there's a new medium, the, there's a always a predict, an inevitable prediction about the death of the old media as a newborn emerges. I don't see that as the case at all. I think the pressure to reinvent and to maintain profit margin is tough. But when you look at, you know, the ditch, some of the digital company profit margins, you know, 20, 30, 40% growth per quarter, I think for other industries that's tough. Yes, right? If you're on the dry cleaning business, you're not going to be making 40% increases.

Judges on the quarterly basis. If you are, you know, obviously on this,

yeah, it's almost a false, it's a false Thomas, you know, nobody, you know, not very many companies or industry sectors can maintain, you know, our country is a country. If we've ever three, 4% growth, we're doing great. Okay. So, uh, so I think there's almost a false premise on, you know, uh, what's a good percentage of growth, but I don't think any of these players are, are, uh, are going away. I think, you know, some of them will not be as potent as powerful as they work. Do you think the, I think six conglomerates now own every television station in the country, a time Warner purchased a t and t of course Disney purchasing a lot of Fox assets. Was that the right move? Do you think that makes them stronger and you partner the data with the original content and that's a venture for success as we move forward?

Well, I think you look at the content strategies of 18 t and Verizon, they're very different strategies. You know, 18 t has become a huge owner, uh, intellectual property and a production. And I think, you know, they're feeding that into their system, uh, the mobile ecosystem, um, via direct TV, you know, into people's living rooms. So there's a, there's a real strategy there. Um, I think with Disney, you know, a lot of what they're doing and the acquisition of Fox is they want to go out and they want to create a competitor to Netflix, um, and pulling all their content off Netflix and coming onto their platform, which launches, you know, I think in about a year, you know, that's a very big initiative for that company. So I think you see a lot of people sort of covering their bases on the way we've always watched television and the way that it seems like the next generation will be watching.

Okay. I mean, my kids are 24 and 21, neither of them cares if they have a cable box in that room. So, you know, to me that's unfathomable. But at 54, demographically, you know, I'm effectively dead [inaudible] Brian, um, uh, still alive but dead, dead to brands. So I hope so. So, so I think, you know, I think folks are stored of trying to make sure that they can, you know, be effective now, but prepare for the future. What are you, I think every brand manager that is out there should be asking ourselves right now as we sit here in 2019. Well I think the fundamentals of how digital media is bought, sold and counted, those are some very big issues and I have a lot of respect for the businesses and the uh, growth that the two dominant players in that sector, Google and Facebook, I had done, you know, look at what Facebook has built over a relatively short period of time, you know, between their core platforms on Facebook and Instagram and you know, now the messaging platform as well.

Slowly but surely. Yeah, it's very impressive. Um, and I think, you know, the whole transparency issue. You talked to Bob Lee, a DCE, the president of the Ana, you know, they've got a lot of emphasis right now between agency and brand, between platform and brand. There's a lot of heat around the whole trust, transparency issue. So I think the platforms are all doing everything they can to continue to maintain and grow share. And I think in there, in with their own, you know, different pathway are trying to be very aggressive on the trust transparency issue of the ownership of data and third party data. I mean these are big titanic issues, you know, facing the industry and I think successful navigation or that are very big priorities for the silicon valley companies. Um, and very big priorities for brands and agencies.

Fine Line your opinion cause I like to get your thoughts on this. As a Yankee fan you would love to see something come across your Facebook that says, hey, buy one ticket, get three free type type deal. Cause you're a Yankee fan and you appreciate that type of the response. But with Cambridge Analytica and data, um, it can be used for a lot of great things. It can be used for bad things. Where do you, do you have an opinion on what that was?

Well listen, I don't think that in fairness that, um, you know, when it's, when a set of tools is built, manufactured and put on the shelf, uh, I don't know that anybody imagined that those tools could be used as effectively by so-called bad actors as they can for sure. You know, a mom, a mom sitting in port Washington, you know, where I live. So I think that, that the, uh, how, you know, the platforms have been used, um, either for influence, like what happened with our election, like what happened in influence the election in the UK, uh, for Brexit. That, um, okay, we would be delivering inadvertently because I don't believe it was purposeful, but that we would be delivering, you know, Christmas comes early to a guy like Vladimir Putin whose currency and very public remarks. This is, none of this is out of school, is to sew and create unrest in the west, in the West, and to create division within our country and to create division with the United States and our traditional allies. NATO in particular. So I think, you know, the deployment of social media tools and platforms to that end, is it very real problem? Um, certainly the failure of [inaudible] our government leadership [inaudible] the White House to recognize that and to taking action to protect our elections is, you know, these are big, big problems.


Um, so I, I think that, uh, nobody in silicon valley saw that coming and I think they are all all, uh, trying as hard as they can to figure out how to tackle that problem. But, you know, once the tools are on the shelves and anybody can buy them for this case, download them. You know, you, you opened up a big a, you got a big enchilada on you.

And that's a thing you mentioned earlier when you had CBS, NBC, Fox, and that was it. Um, in order to be on those platforms, you had to have a huge company and pay a lot of money. And that was Kinda your ability to establish yourself. But I've used this analogy before, you know, Republican I don't know if that's an actual site or not, but if you buy that domain, you have the same way to bid, ah, as CNN, BBC, et Cetera. And it's really hard for the end consumer to tell who's reputable, who's fake, who's not. And that's a, that's a huge concern.

I mean, listen, every day there's another story about somebody getting the deal across the finish line who shouldn't have. And, uh, there was something I just saw, you know, coming back from lunch today on, you know, another extremist group that was somehow able to buy something on one of them. I forgot which platform it was. So I think it's a, this is a very real issue. I, you know, you know, I know in, in a very real way that the leadership of those companies are taking it as seriously as any way he could, you know, hope for and expect. Um, but, um, it's just, you know, a tough situation and it's a very serious situation.

Or I know you probably had a lot of coffees and drinks and obviously you've watched a lot of people on stage and all your different events. Has there been something recently the last year or so that was an epiphany for you or a great one liner that you think really struck home? That made a lot of sense? Well, uh Huh.

Listen, I gravitate towards the things that we've been able to do on stage and I'm going take us in a different direction that relate to real issues. So that advertising week has been, not to say that we've been talking about RBL issues, but I'd be an issue that affect broader society beyond the ecosystem of, you know, advertising, marketing and media. So when we had Emma Stone on stage and the fallen in New York, you know, talking about, um, mental health, that was very meaningful when we had, um, Nikki Sixx from Motley crew who technically was that 17 or 18 years ago from [inaudible] prescription meds. I'm onstage [inaudible] with the surgeon general of the United States talking about the opioid crisis. You know, that to me was very meaningful. You know what we're doing, bringing advertising me to Africa. Okay. Creating sort of a two way street. Two tell stories of innovation that are going on at that continent to the rest of the world.

Um, and bringing leaders and a lot of African American leaders to Africa for the first time you're talk to and inspire young people. That's very meaningful. Um, but in terms of, you know, align or, Jeez, you know, yeah, we had Nile Rogers a couple of times and to hear a guy like that talk about what it was like to work with David Bowie, what it was like to work with, you know, the whole daft punk story. You know, one that comes to mind. Now you've got me thinking about it. We had Danielle Lamont oh are years ago, who the CEO of a Cirque de Solei and he told the story of how the Beatles and sir, you know, the surviving Beatles, um, created the love show in Vegas. And how in the end it came down to a meeting with g Liberte, the founder, Danielle, the guy just mentioned with Yoko. Oh, no. Okay. Right. Um, uh, Olivia and Danny Harrison, Paul McCartney, and Ringo Starr. So to hear that story, you know, an advertising week that was really memorable. I know, well we got to get Sadie up, but a couple of quick hitters or the, the lightning round, it's real rapid fire. What is the common mistake you see brands making?

Uh, I think,

you know, the brand are in control of their brand and I think there's been a little bit too much, uh, you know, once you're out there with the campaign, we've seen a lot of folks make mistakes. We shouldn't be making mistakes. And I think, you know, the currency now that's attached to influencers and we're looking at what's happening now, this, you know, terrible case from USC and Lori Loughlin yes. Of Man and I saw she pled guilty, um, today, uh, you know, you know, the amount of, um, power that ease influencers have these very young kids often and they become stewards for brands. Um, and you're creating, on one hand you're playing to passion and a lot of that stuff is working. On the other hand, you know, you've introduced an element of risk into what you're doing. That's pretty high. So, um, I think it'll be very interesting to see how that system plays out.

You know, the whole success of the fire festival on the front end was all because they made of, I don't know if you saw the document that, you know, they paid all these models, all this money to go out and they made a very fancy video and the illusion of something that wasn't real. Yeah. So I think the danger for brands is you've got to sit on the foundation of stuff that's real while balancing that need to be cutting edge, to be innovative, to use the modern day digital tools, you know, to connect. Um, but you've got to protect your brand. Um, and, uh, you've got to, you know, balance risks and reward. Do you have a reset, maybe your favorite all time campaign marketing advertising campaign that just resonates with you and nothing out of the park, the old American Express, the, do you know, me campaign was really terrific and I remember that one.

I think they've sort of been their current campaign. They sort of drawn back upon that a little bit. Um, within the same category. I think mastercard's done very, very well with the priceless campaign. Um, and I think that's a favorite. I like some of the old stuff, you know, I still like, you know, the old Coca Cola, I'd like to teach the world the saying. I'm obviously dating myself. Um, I think the newer chase stuff with Serena, yeah, it was very, very well done creatively. Um, and I like some of this stuff that's not necessarily campaigns, but I like how, you know, certain brands manage the relationship with their own customers. I think Virgin Atlantic does a really good job, I think soul angle because they're really good job. What were your thoughts on the Nike called cultic cult? A brand called the personality. What are your thoughts on the Nike called Copper Knickknack? Cause I, you know, going into it, Nike knew they were going to get some people that loved it and people that really had problems with it.

I think it, I think if for the bottom line it was really successful for Nike, um, and I think about your brand that you're doing the right thing. I don't know that I believe the, any publicity is good publicity completely. I don't think that's completely true. I think there are elements of truth in that, but I think largely because of our, going back to our earlier conversation about bad actors using social media, we are in a new era of polarization and I think it's very difficult at end of day for everybody to stay neutral. You know, we had a dinner last year at Advertising Week and our guest speaker was, um, clearly, you know, very far on the left and there were a lot of people that were on the right in the middle and to the right of the middle in the room. And there were a lot of people that were offended, you know, from our vantage point, we did a big seminar last year about the image of brand America. Um, and I was sure to have both CNN on Fox News. Yeah, of course on stage together. So I think, you know, our job is, is to be Switzerland and represent all perspectives, but I think brands that choose sides in a very real resonant way, you're going to pull it, you're going to piss off somebody. Um, and I think that's a new, that's a relatively phenomenon.

All right, so we've been talking a lot about all we do at this point, five g I really think it's an insane saint as a game the same way forwards he really did for these social networks and the mobile device when it comes to programmatic advertising. Um, what do you, what have you seen in the future that you're really paying? Right?

I think there were a lot of very big that's being made and that that will only accelerate growth further. Um, and uh, what we're seeing now, you know, 5g will take what was an eight or a 12 cylinder engine and make it an 18 or a 24 cylinder engine. So I think that's, that's that, that's common too.

And I always ask this question, if you could recommend anybody to your network that you think would provide value or be a really good guest to kind of dive into things like we just did. Anybody come to mind that you would recommend for the next show?

I like a guy named Jason Harris who runs mechanism. I think they're a mid size boutiquey sort of agency, but they've got scale. I love what he's doing. Does an agency, a gravity road that's London based, that's now opened in America and the founders, they are Mark Boyd, Marquis Eaves, I think very highly of. I think they've got their finger on the pulse. Um, I really liked, there's a woman named Betsy Lac who's the head of global brand and image at snap. I think Betsy, you know, really as our finger on the pulse. Um,

I think those are, those are a couple of good point often picks up on those. I appreciate that. Um, well that they give us. So for breaking that down, uh, once again, he is the global CEO of advertising week and it's all over the world now. Congratulations on all the success and thanks so much at the time, man.

We'll keep throwing punches. Thanks for having me.

Thanks Matt.


there he is. Matt Scheckner, the global CEO of advertising week. Really enjoyed that conversation and his perspective. I loved how he said a, I mean I'm 54 so I'm pretty much dead to brands. That's a little harsh. It's got, still got a lot, lot of time to go, but you know, it is, it is true in a sense at least of what brands, you know, going after that 18 to 34 demo or, uh, 39 demo. Uh, I thought it was just going to be, you know, we talked about at nauseum about fire festival on this show, probably the last 10 or 15 episodes. Uh, but all brands have to focus on, you know, what's real and you know, it's all good to paint an amazing picture. But if that picture is something that you can't end up, uh, ended up selling or get in the consumer's hands, it can lead to a lot of issues.

And also the power of influencers, which is kinda similar to, you know, I think, you know, these brands that have been, uh, dealing with athletes or different people that sponsor their brand and it gets into, uh, into a situation where now these influencers are the face of your brand. You have to be super careful about that and it really never, ah, hurt anybody, break it down like that. And I think it's super important. And the biggest thing that I liked his take on was data. I mean, what, where is that fine line when you look at Cambridge Analytica and what happened with the election? Um, those are some scary bad things. At the same time, it's really exciting right now for marketers and advertisers cause you can actually reach the person and as a consumer you can actually feed me stuff that I want to see rather than just, you know, spray and pray approach. So, you know, we're still dealing with that. I think it's so do the Facebooks of the world, didn't understand how big of a loophole that was to close, and they're working towards that. So we'll see. But that's gonna be a huge debate and, uh, something that we'll have to fix as advertisers and as platforms as we continue and as technology continues to get faster and more powerful. So I really thought that was a really great episode of match secondary, once again, the global CEO of Ad Week. As always, I want to thank David Frerker.

Will Kelly, Dylan verso. All right. Coming at 34 episodes and I appreciate all the help. This has been the business of social power by STN digital. Make sure if you liked the program, hit us up on iTunes, give us that five star review. We will really appreciate it. That's it. This is the social podcast powered by STN Digital.