How To Build An Effective Content Strategy For Your Brand with Curt Doty

Curt Doty is the CEO of Vertuoso, a marketing and branding consulting firm focused on business development, branding, social strategy, digital content, integrated marketing, and user experience. He got his start in television at ABC News and then transitioned into the entertainment industry. This led to a career in the movie industry where he was the VP of Creative Services at Universal Pictures, ultimately leading to his career in PR and brand work.

Listen to the full show here: (and please subscribe to our podcast)

Here are the highlights:

[22:41]: Will you get left behind if you're not willing to roll up your sleeves, move, adjust and evolve in this industry? 

"If you're in love with software, machines, and paradigms that exist for 70 years in Television... your not going to roll with the punches very well. There's a lot of punches out there and you MUST adapt. You have to grow. You have to keep your eye on the prize. You have to be aware of the trends."

[25:48]: What do you think the best thing about our industry is?  

"It’s the golden age of really fantastic content. There's more content then we can consume. It’s all high quality. The opportunity is to be able to market that content. I see nothing but opportunity both in-house and out-of-house. Connecting great content with consumers in a meaningful way is the exciting part of our industry."

Full Transcripts

Ep 13 - Curt Doty audio for iTunes



[00:00:06.00] David:  What's up, guys? It is David Brickley, and you are listening to the business of a social podcast powered by STN Digital. Each and every show we work with the experts to learn and stay up-to-date on the ever changing digital and marketing industry. We all know what happened a few weeks ago, Instagram dropped the bomb on us, IGTV, which is a whole different platform going head-to-head with YouTube, vertical storytelling at its fullest. And we're all trying to figure out as an industry how to be first to market, how to capitalize on it, how really to engage the undervalued attention that is on that platform as we speak.


And there's no better guest to talk about vertical storytelling than the great Curt Doty, the CEO of Virtuoso, it's a consulting firm focused on branded and original content specifically in vertical. He's carved this niche in the industry that I think is going to be really something a lot of people are going after, and he's been a guy that's been in the game for a while at deluxe studios, Universal Pictures, he was a VP of creative services. So he's understood this transition in terms of digital and social, and now vertical storytelling.


And I truly believe at a certain point, and I'll talk to him about this on the program, will we see a full sports broadcast completely in vertical? And will the consumer be able to consume vertical content exclusively as we continue to move more towards mobile viewing? So you guys are really going to like this, especially anybody that wants to learn more about IGTV and vertical storytelling, this guy is the man. Ladies and gentlemen, Curt Doty.


He is the CEO of Virtuoso a consulting firm focused on branded and original content and vertical storytelling, which we're going to get a lot into. Curt Doty joins me. Thanks so much for coming on the show, man.


[00:01:48.28] Curt:  Hey, nice to be here. Thanks for the invite.


[00:01:50.37] David:  I appreciate it. So man, it seems like you've really had quite the career in this industry starting back in the late 80s, in news and producing and where you are now. So kind of walk me through that.


[00:02:02.50] Curt:  Oh, my God, we're going way back, okay. Yeah, I mean, I got my start in television at ABC News and learned all about news and sports and design and on-air. And it was my boot camp in TV. And then I went on to do entertainment marketing and branding which was network branding, I did that all over the world. And Promax certainly as we're sitting here was a big central part to gaining exposure and creating opportunity. And I've been to Promaxes in Asia as well as London and Germany. So it's been fun. And my TV career then led to a career in movies, I did movie marketing for ten years, I was an executive at Universal Pictures.


[00:02:57.51] David:  Mostly on the creative director side or the creative department?


[00:03:00.24] Curt:  Yeah, I'm running creative campaigns.


[00:03:02.34] David:  That's a big job for Universal Pictures, yeah, it's a lot.


[00:03:03.30] Curt:  360-degree marketing, and so I learned a lot and did a lot. I was very prolific. And then I decided I wanted to get into more brand work, and so I ended up at a PR company and start a West Coast digital group, and I was able to work with Fortune 500 brands and building content marketing and digital hubs and do a lot of kind of digital initiatives and social initiatives through them. So with that kind of background I said, "I might as well start my own consultancy," which then lead to the launch of Virtuoso.


[00:03:46.07] David:  That's awesome, man. What a story? So what type of clients do you focus on with your current firm?


[00:03:52.09] Curt:  What we're doing is interesting, because when we put out ... We cast this wide net with vertical storytelling. We didn't know was it going to be ads, was it going to be social, was it going to be content? What was it going to be? So that's why we went a little broad with our descriptor. And what came back was half of the interest was in developing content, and half of it was based on marketing and social marketing specifically. And so our clientele is kind of split between that, and so we have properties and development and we're a digital agency record for a show called Wonder AMA. And we're helping actually build out their digital ecosystem.


And part of that strategy was we go in with a focus on mobile, and mobile first strategies, and a mobile first strategy today to us is really about what is your vertical content strategy, because that's the number one thing people like to do in mobile now is watch video.


[00:04:56.10] David:  Of course, fill up the screen.


[00:04:57.30] Curt:  Yeah, and so then from a content strategy where can that content and those new ideas in support of a show live beyond the broadcast? And so that's what we're really good at is actually building out digital ecosystems, whether it's apps and trivia and ancillary content. That's been our focus.


[00:05:21.19] David:  How much of it is apps worthy brands, are your clients are owning it a hundred percent? And how much are you bringing in Instagram stories in terms of discovering to the mix is kind of that third party part?


[00:05:30.37] Curt:  Yeah, so people always ask so what's the distribution, right? And so obviously all the social channels now have vertical video players, they've embraced it, and they've embraced different aspects of it whether it's snap ads which are six seconds or Instagram stories which now is accepting long-form. And so it's really a social play.


But we also look at the content aggregators and/or media companies who have their own apps, that if they have their own platform they're in control of the media that's on that platform. And they should be doing vertical promos and vertical content, and Netflix is doing that, and so they're kind of leading the charge in a way that I think the other movie studios, let alone TV networks should be following. So they're a disruptor, they're an innovator, and these other networks we've been talking to many of them. And they're all in their own evolution of embracing vertical, they get it, but there's this thing called landscape entertainment where all their content is landscape so it's a paradigm shift for them. But Netflix is very interesting, because ...


[00:07:00.53] David:  They have $8 billion.


[00:07:02.23] Curt:  Well, they have the money, they have some fantastic shows, and they're an innovator. So they're taking risks and they're paying off and developing new connection points to connect with their mobile audience. So that's what's important is where is this consumer, and if they're watching a lot of content on their mobile phone then cater to that form factor.


[00:07:29.07] David:  Almost as if you're watching Winter TV and it was in vertical it would be not genuine to that platform, so start creating content that fits the screen essentially, as simple as that is.


[00:07:39.50] Curt:  Yeah, when filming making first started over 100 years ago they had no idea that we'd be holding these vertical devices in our hands for eight hours a day, consuming many feet of content of vertical scroll. So but that's our reality today, and that's the opportunity. We see it as opportunity.


[00:07:59.45] David:  So I want to get a little more granular, because I think a lot of people in our industry get very angry when Zuckerberg changed the algorithm or different things are shifting. I want to get your thoughts and your consulting angle of owning that app and kind of owning your distribution, because obviously those are free billboards and you want to play in that space, but to put all your money in one basket I think a lot of people making mistakes there.


[00:08:21.18] Curt:  Yeah, I think you need to define your audience, where are they living, and it may not be on Facebook. And but if you have a broad enough demo you should be on every platform that's relevant to your demo. And it's not enough to just say, "Oh, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on YouTube." What is a content strategy and that content should be different on each platform, because people go to those platforms for different experiences. And they're not going to believe that 30-second spot. And they don't even let you put 30 second spots on Snaps, so it's a six-second world and it's very definitely vertical.


[00:09:10.04] David:  And I see network all the time make a huge mistake of just repurposing that 30-second promo and throwing it on Instagram. Why isn't it working? Well, it's not genuine to the platform.


[00:09:19.01] Curt:  No, it doesn't work.


[00:09:20.36] David:  It's a lazy way to do it, right?


[00:09:21.00] Curt:  Funny story, when we started the company was I said, "I had this insight of there's no agency really focused on vertical content. Why is that?" And so I said, "Well, they're coming from the movie industry, it was like, well, it would be cool to do movie trailers vertical." This is a year ago. And I said, "Well, I'm going to go to YouTube and search for that." And so I went and I found a vertical movie trailer channel. Fantastic. Guess how many trailers were there?


[00:09:48.42] David:  Three.


[00:09:49.37] Curt:  Two. Mad Max and a Batman. And basically they were repurposed, pan and scanned, two and a half minute trailers that failed miserably. And it's understandable why that art form ... Again, trailers are an art form, could not work in a vertical format. And so then it became apparent that in order to do marketing effectively vertically you need to do something different. And that's what we're about, we're doing the different, we're not doing the repurpose. We want to come up with concepts, do original production, behind-the-scenes production. Whatever it takes to give us enough vertical material to tell stories in a purposefully-driven way, that when you see it, it smacks between the eyes, wow, that is different. And that was done purposely.


[00:10:45.32] David:  And being in the game and cutting those trailers, the sixteen by nine is very difficult to throw into a vertical format and make it look like it ... So you almost have to go out and shoot those promos a little bit differently or almost beyond sight, and make sure you turn the camera nine degrees.


[00:10:58.59] Curt:  Exactly. And we just did a production last week with a major celebrity, and we had multiple cameras and we covered it both landscape and vertically, and we had a consistent vertical B-roll camera. So if you can cover it any which way you're just creating assets that you're always going to be able to use and have this toolbox down the road. And that's why we are increasingly being asked to be involved in production. I've done behind the scenes production for many years for different companies.


And so that's very easy. Our stable of content creators comes from that documentary, interviewing, behind-the-scenes, DVD content type of world. So it's very easy to say, "Well, now we're just making it vertical." So we have years of that type of experience, and with this new opportunity that's what's needed in order to move the needle.


[00:11:56.01] David:  Interesting. So if you're ... I think you and I get it in terms of the social space and what's coming and making it more efficient for the consumer, I think on the film studio and TV network side the main revenue is still the 30-second ad especially on linear and it's tough, right? I think you would say that every TV networks should go all-in on vertical and make sure that's part of all your strategy, but how have you kind of dealt with that argument? Because they're still making a lot of money on that side, but they kind of see the shift changing. So how do you I guess do both at the same time?


[00:12:26.30] Curt:  Well, you just have to watch the trends that are happening. So the Instagram announcement of accepting long-form entertainment and stories, that's huge, they're going to integrate advertising, basically a new vertical video platform. So that'll be monetized in the same way that YouTube has always monetize that content. And so if you're watching the trend, you're seeing one by one these social networks adapt and embrace vertical, you're going to see the media networks follow, the movie studios follow. So to me it's a natural course at this point, there's no technology barrier. It's a barrier of the mind and culture.


[00:13:12.17] David:  Yeah, which is tough to break.


[00:13:14.38] Curt:  But if there's no real price point and no technology barrier, there's no excuse not to do it. And many times we talk with our clients about the disruption, that was my session here with Promax was a vertical disruption. How is disruption preventing vertical adoption or how is disruption creating innovation and breaking the rules, and not accepting necessarily the best standard by these social platforms, but actually saying, "You know what? We want to cut above the noise of just sticking by the rules. We want to actually stand out."


And that's what advertising is, and so I think it we believe it's an opportunity to be innovative and standout. And we want to work with those companies I think that way, and drag everyone else along. And I've been evangelizing the format for the past seven months, and I knew evangelism would be a big part of it. But I've been having a great time doing it, being able to talk to a lot of the networks and studios and find out about how they're tackling it or not tackling it. And some are doing it really well, and some have shows on Snap and it's fantastic.


So again, we're in the mix, we're a very unique company, hybrid in nature between a creative agency and a production company. And we're kind of fulfilling a little niche that we believe is underserved, and think that it's very important to focus on, and knowing the opportunity.


[00:14:57.06] David:  Yeah, and to call yourself kind of that vertical innovative disruptor is an interesting way, because it's a niche like you said that you can fill. When it comes to this industry as well, I think some of the problem would be also on the sales side, right? Like, for so many years they've known here's my inventory, here's how I sell. Have you seen some of your clients in this industry, are they starting to get the digital rate cards or the branded content or find a way to incorporate their partners into more vertical?


[00:15:25.45] Curt:  Yeah, so there's lots of different models. So we come from an evangelism point of view, so we have rate cards to do what we call verticalization of promos. And so that's kind of our baseline, but on top of that if a network has 30 editors working in-house and they're all working very hard, and we recognize that they have a volume to produce. What we're coming in and saying, "Consult with us, we want to help you develop your own best practices. And not necessarily adhere to the social platforms' best practices, because you have a unique workflow, you have decades of experiences of cutting promos and trailers that Facebook and Instagram, they don't know how to cut trailers, but you guys do." So it's like where's that synthesis of a new process to create opportunity for vertical storytelling.


So we have workshops that we can go into networks and studios and work collaboratively. And end up with a style guide, that all of a sudden ...


[00:16:43.35] David:  That they could take and run with it at a certain point.


[00:16:45.34] Curt:  Yeah, exactly, and so we're not trying to carve out something where we're exclusive. We realize and are empathetic with all the staff, because I've run staffs before so I know. And they're wonderful people, hard-working people. And they want creative opportunity and change, but the volume sometimes doesn't allow them or the management wants them to do one thing or they don't understand the opportunity.


So we just want to illuminate and put a spotlight on the opportunity and have everybody embrace it, because if everybody starts to embrace it then we've elevated this new shape of content. And that's what we're talking about, the new shape of content.


[00:17:27.06] David:  So recode came out last year and 2017 was the first time that digital advertising outspent linear advertising, so I know we're talking a lot about vertical, but that just is going to continue to rise. Do you think going back to that do you think the networks and the movie, can they shift fast enough for the Fortune 500 being more interested in where all the eyeballs are in the social and more digital formats?


[00:17:53.22] Curt:  Yeah, I've done digital marketing. I believe in it to an extent, but we're coming from a content perspective and not necessarily a display ad perspective. Because we think the social platforms is they've gotten into advertising that that's really the play. And I think content can be compelling, and it's different than the 30-second ad or a digital display ad, banner campaign. And I think that people are on their social channels more than on a website that bump into these digital ads and banner ads that they may or may not interact with, because if you're on a feed you're scrolling, you're scrolling, and you see a piece of video that's silent, but there's something compelling there and you click on it, it expands vertically to fill your entire phone vertically. That's pretty awesome.


And we think that's the play. So I think it's all changing, we think it's new and exciting. And we believe that's the new opportunity. That's our focus. We don't want ... At first when we went out there are a few people who say, "Well, these are like vertical ads." And I go, "No, they're not vertical ads. It's about content." It's about storytelling. Again, it's the first page in our deck is like vertical storytelling for mobile. What does that mean? Let us tell you what that means.


[00:19:29.53] David:  Do you get the ROI question a lot?


[00:19:32.11] Curt:  Well, sure, that comes with distribution, that comes with branded content, who's paying for the content, how do you monetize the content? Thank goodness, Instagram just like said they're going to create their platform. I think they're going to do a great job. And so we're looking forward to those types of opportunities.


[00:19:55.43] David:  Awesome. So being on both the company side, Universal Pictures, and now with your own consulting and agency, how have you found working inside and also outside when it is good to bring in an outside agency? Because there's a lot of people also that say we can do that internally, no need to bring it out. So how do you balance that at both sides of it?


[00:20:15.03] Curt:  I've been around a while, I hate to say it, I've seen the pendulum shift from let's bring everything inside, seeing that failed to some extremes, and then I've seen it swing to the other side of like we're just outsourcing everything. I've been on the side of I outsource to everything when I was at Universal, and they said, "Now we got to bring it all back in." And it's like, "Ugh, really?" I mean, I always wrote my own trailers and stuff, but editorial is something that's pretty special. And there's great editors inside and outside.


So depending on what your position is you kind of have to go with the flow or always find your own creative way to be creative. So it's hard for me to speculate, but I do see a swing pendulum swing back to more outsourcing. And with kind of special consulting groups, because an ad agency is really hard to define these days. And they used to promise everything, and they never did everything to begin with, they would outsource. So then came the digital agency, then the social agency, and we're happy to say we're none of those but we're a little piece of all of that. And we're okay with not really being able to define us other than kind of a hybrid consultancy with very specific focus, but it's a very relevant focus.


So all we want to do is be relevant to our clients, and those are the conversations that we've had because for years you can beat on doors, and unless you have a relevant point of view you're not going to get the meeting. We're getting meetings all over.


[00:22:15.57] David:  It's funny, we started this company five years ago, STN Digital, and we were initially selling blogs to sports teams. Five years later we have broadcast satellite trucks doing Facebook Lives with five cameras, it's just ... It's insane, I'm sure you agree. But the last like five years and especially since you've been in the game as well, I mean, just how quickly things change in this technology.


[00:22:34.30] Curt:  Oh, yeah. And so you got to track it, you got to follow it.


[00:22:37.09] David:  Get involved, yeah.


[00:22:38.00] Curt:  And either kind of lead the way or follow the leader, but unless you're moving forward you're not evolving. And there's a lot of mergers and acquisitions and consolidations going on. I'm sure that the management teams are picking their superstars of who's going to lead a new company into this age. And I think that if I were one of those executives I'd want to arm myself with a point of view, philosophy, agencies to help me succeed. I'm projecting another person's career here, but there's a lot of angst with all this Comcast and and AT&T talk.


And so if I were any one of those employees I'd be learning a lot and developing my value to the company and demonstrating why you should be the one that survives the layoffs. That you never want to talk about, but it's always the reality.


[00:23:48.22] David:  Yeah, of course, and I think that you're the perfect example of that like starting with news, I think 84 back then, and then all the way to starting a vertical disruption company. I mean, talk about the evolution of that, like just moving with the times.


[00:24:01.20] Curt:  Well, I was classically trained as an illustrator, until I find myself talking about all this stuff. It's amazing, so yeah, I've had a very interesting career.


[00:24:07.45] David:  But I think to your point, and this is more just kind of talking shop, but I think there's a lot of fear in the linear industry. But to your point if you're willing to kind of roll your sleeves up and move and adjust and evolve, you'll be just fine, but if you kind of want to keep on doing the same old-fashioned way and be lazy in a sense then you're probably going to get left behind. It's kind of what it really comes down to, black and white.


[00:24:26.44] Curt:  Yeah, again, I go back to storytelling. So if you as an editor out there can say, "You know what? I'm a great storyteller. I can tell a story vertically, horizontally, three seconds, six seconds, half hour, whatever." With that type of attitude and focus I think you can survive and adapt. If you're in love with software and machines and paradigms that have existed for 70 years in television I think you're not going to roll with the punches. And there's a lot of punches out there. And you have to adapt, you have to grow, you have to keep your eye on the prize. You had to be aware of all the trends.


[00:25:15.16] David:  What is in your opinion when people ask you this, the area in social or in digital where the undervalued attention is right now? Do you think there's a certain subset that maybe we're not paying enough attention into that we should be as marketers?


[00:25:29.09] Curt:  Well, when you say as marketers we talked about the definitions of various agencies. I think over the last ten years there's been new jobs created, new roles where once social became a media buy then you have a social media planner.


[00:25:58.19] David:  The digital ninjas of the world.


[00:25:59.58] Curt:  Yeah, versus just a media planner. And so I always like looking at those titles. And one time I was in a Disney meeting a while back, and it's when I was positioning our trailer-park division advanced content. And we had this position, and people at Disney said, "Well, that should be our position." And I said, "You're exactly right. That's why we position the company because we see your future."


[00:26:27.57] David:  You're not doing it fast enough.


[00:26:28.57] Curt:  And so we're aligning with your future. So the fact that you're relating to our positioning, that's what's supposed to happen. And if you can form a company where you have an alignment and vision with your client and yourself, your agency, then you know you're in the right space.


[00:26:45.39] David:  Find the bottleneck, yeah.


[00:26:46.10] Curt:  Yes, right, and so that's synergy. I hate to say that word. But it's amazing when it happens, because you work hard to develop a niche, a position and expertise to go out on a limb and say, "We believe this." And I've had just a lot of validation over the last six months since we launched. Yes, smart idea, correct, unique, and clever, and it's like, yeah, let's just keep the dialogue going and/or you're hired.


[00:27:19.33] David:  So a couple rapid-fire questions, I'll get you out of here, I promise. What do you think is the best thing about our industry currently?


[00:27:25.30] Curt:  Well, what industry do you speak of because ...


[00:27:29.26] David:  I guess marketing, TV, film, kind of everybody out walking around.


[00:27:33.45] Curt:  Yeah, so I think it's a golden age of really fantastic content. I think what Netflix and Hulu are doing with their slates is fantastic; networks are certainly trying to catch up. HBO's awesome as always. But I think there's more content than we can consume. It's all high quality, and I think the opportunity is to be able to market that content, be involved.


And I think there's so much going on. I see nothing but opportunity, both in house and out of house. And I think with all these new ways to connect with the consumer I think connecting great content with consumers in a meaningful way, where they live, I think that's the exciting part of our industry.


[00:28:31.01] David:  That's such an interesting point because there used to be three major networks on the TV antenna, and now Netflix alone is spending $8 billion on 800 different series I think this year. And that's just one company doing that.


[00:28:42.52] Curt:  Meanwhile the number of movies being made every year stays the same.


[00:28:47.04] David:  Yeah, it's only Marvel comic movies, and that's all you need. What about the ... I guess frustrating or this media industry, what frustrates you or what do you think is I guess the worst thing that you deal with?


[00:28:59.07] Curt:  Well, historically I actually left the movie business about six years ago because there was a lot of pitching going on. And a lot of companies never winning, and I wasn't sure how that's contributing to the economy. And so the idea of pitching for free which has been a very controversial topic even in the television industry is something that's not helpful. But I think that as more kind of boutique expertise comes up, just like us, it's like I don't know who were competing with. So what do you mean we're pitching? We're like either bring us in or you don't and we're fine with that.


[00:29:44.30] David:  Yeah, here's what we're good at, do you need it?


[00:29:47.28] Curt:  Yeah, so again, I think some of the pitfalls for agencies over the years have been a lot of lost revenue from spending 20, $30,000 on a pitch that you found out later was not even a pitch. They just want to see some stuff. It's like really unfair, and so I'm very pro artist rights, I told you my roots as an illustrator. I'm very pro artist, and so I'm always sympathetic to that. And so I want to build a business where we're treated fairly, anyone that works with us is treated fairly and operate from a position of how are we contributing to the economy, the gig economy?


[00:30:32.18] David:  That's a good point.


[00:30:33.55] Curt:  Working for free is not a gig economy.


[00:30:35.21] David:  Yeah, it's true. So if I were to tell you a few years ago that you're going to start a vertical storytelling, vertical disruption agency, maybe some of you wouldn't believe, but I would love to see if you kind of predict the future 12 months from today if we sit down, what do you think is the biggest thing in the media industry that we see change?


[00:30:54.44] Curt:  The biggest thing that would really help us if all the influencers on YouTube switch to vertical.


[00:31:00.58] David:  Interesting.


[00:31:02.15] Curt:  That would be a game changer, because they're leading the charge in terms of really relevant content for the new generation. And we could really use help on the vertical side if they made that switch.


[00:31:19.06] David:  One last question for you, because ESPN Plus coming out with their app, Bleacher Report as well, Live Sports I'm not sure if you've thought about that, but that's always flip your phone sixteen by nine, does that ever get into a vertical? I know it's tough with the core in a field, but is that possible you think?


[00:31:36.27] Curt:  Yeah, again, what are you shooting, right? Well, a football field, a soccer field, a baseball field. I think that the vertical format lends itself more to the personalities, the athletes, and interviews. And so we see it as an ancillary content play. It could be a simulcast channel that's companion to a broadcast. But its companion, so ... But I think I have a vision for a news broadcast to be vertically broadcast. They have all the ... in the control room, because I came from news, they have all the computers to like rearrange the screen in any different way and do live feeds presented in any different way. I don't know why no one has ...


[00:32:33.00] David:  And NBC News has kind of done that on Snapchat where at least they have ...


[00:32:36.20] Curt:  Yeah, but it's package, it's not live. So imagine a live broadcast that you get on your phone. That's what hasn't been done, and I think that would be a game changer. So I'm waiting to consult with CNN or a news agency who wants to do that, I'd love to help with that. But when a broadcast, a live broadcast news does that, I think that will be the game changer. And why not do it? It's just unbelievable that they haven't thought it ...


[00:33:05.00] David:  Makes too much sense.


[00:33:05.16] Curt:  Yeah, it makes too much sense. And that's one of my frustrations, a lot of what I talk about makes too much sense, and I spend a lot of my time just talking sense to networks. And some get it and some are challenged and they're burdened by the fact that all their media is landscape. And it's understandable, but we're at a nexus of opportunity. And so where are you going to be on? On the other side of that nexus. A leader or a follower or a non-doer, where do you want to be? It's my question to them.


[00:33:44.04] David:  Well, that's why you're the expert and you could provide that niche for them. So it's been a pleasure. I appreciate so much, Curt. Thanks.


[00:33:49.42] Curt:  Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.


[00:33:51.00] David:  All right, sounds good.


[00:33:53.12] Curt:  And next year.


[00:33:54.36] David:  All right, thanks so much, Curt. I appreciate it, man. All right, guys, so once again Curt Doty, I really appreciate his time and sitting down with me. I think it's very interesting. Again, this guy carved the niche even before IGTV started about how important vertical storytelling is, and I like how him and I got into that back-and-forth about, "Listen, when you're doing a production you can sit there and you can create the demo reel, you can create the sizzle, whatever you're trying to do in terms of a promo. But you have to shoot specifically for vertical in order for that content to be reformatted for that type of platform." So a lot of people will repurpose their 30-second promos that are fit for linear television and they wonder why it's not working on Instagram.


You have to kind of be genuine to the platform we talked about a lot on this show all the time, and I think that's what he understood, and I think his business will do just fine especially with the IGTV coming out now. A lot of people are trying to understand how they can capitalize in this vertical world that we're moving toward, so great conversation with Curt Doty. I'm sure we will talk a lot more as we continue to learn more about IGTV and people get into the vertical game. It was a very good one. So as I always do, I want to thank of course Sam Howard, David Ferker, and Auntie Lightning for all their help producing this show each and every week. My name is David Brickley, the David of the business of social powered by STN Digital.